The Three Kayas

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Not really about contemplation.

Studying includes contemplating if the subject is understanding yourself or life.
I would hope one is thinking about and applying what they have read if the subject
is religion, spirituality, or philosophy.

Studying and memorizing, with no thinking about what you have read, or contemplating,
seems to be your definition. That's good for some subjects like spelling or vocabulary,
but not so good for true understanding. It has to be applied to experience to move from
the conceptual to true knowledge and truth.
________________________________________

From a dictionary online:

stud·y
ˈstədē/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: studying
1.
devote time and attention to acquiring knowledge on (an academic subject), especially by means of books.
"she studied biology and botany"
synonyms: learn, read, be taught
"he studied electronics"
2.
look at closely in order to observe

***********************************************

con·tem·plate
ˈkän(t)əmˌplāt/Submit
verb
look thoughtfully for a long time at.

think about.

synonyms: think about, ponder, reflect on, consider, mull over, muse on, dwell on, deliberate over, meditate on, ruminate on, chew over, brood on/about, turn over in one's mind; More
think profoundly and at length

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

There you go again with your POWER and ATHORITY issues.

If you were in discussion you'd comment on the points I make, and you wouldn't exert power by discrediting me personally so as to invalidate what I say.

Right View Gem is about correct understanding. Not what you want it to be.

The tact is patterned. It first requires establishing a lower position (by asserting I have issues to discredit what I say). Then the straw man is used to falsely imply that I ever said 'right view' is what I want it to be (which I never even remotely inferred), to establish wrongness so as to position righteousness. It is obvious that so far you have commented on my deficient psychological state, and implied I said or I think something I didn't think or say. Recent readers who weren't around to hear what I actually said in the full context would be misled by all this. You see how this reflects on understanding the notion of 'right' at the level of actualisation?

Debating, the Buddha debated all the time. What you don't see me doing is saying an entire people are rapists, or not Buddhist because I don't believe in their teachings.

You preach, kindness and compassion but you have supported those who disparage others. You support wrong views on teachings by saying any quoting of leaned people is a power trip.

Straw man. What I say and what you say I say are not the same thing. Quoting supposedly holy text is fine, great and helpful, and I advocate practice and philosophy together, but I also comment on using authoritative text to prove oneself right. What I was commenting on was intent, not the text in itself.

A forum is a place to learn and grow. You are going to have the wrong understanding on stuff. I know I do and get smacked down often when I am wrong. Is it a power trip of the other person for showing my incorrect understanding or just me needing to learn more?

It just depends on the intent, but if people point out that you've misread or express a somewhat broader perspective, that's just the discussion of topic, but when they deride you by asserting your psychological deficiencies, issues and so forth, and misrepresenting what you say, not as an isolated event, but as a tendency, that's a clear indicator of a positioning strategy, which is a power trip.

Are you projecting something on to others instead of working on those feelings and issues within yourself?

No. And there's nothing in my behaviours to indicate it.

It's is kind of crazy to have people say actually learning is wrong.

I understand the implication, but I didn't say anything like that. It's a straw man.

Especially things as powerful and life changing as spiritual practices can be.

That's what I talk about pretty much consistently, and I try to convey some fundamental aspects of what is termed 'right meditation'. I try to listen more carefully to what other people say so can I understand what they actually say, the context of their meaning, and not misrepresent them in any way. It's just a practice of right speech, not a perfection, but as far as I'm able.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Originally Posted by Gem
' However, it's not really a knowledge game, in that we can quote authorities as if it's an answer '


I remember that you pointed me to a YouTube Video or talk or whatever ( I don't know as I didn't need to watch it ) but you said it would prove you are correct. I would definitely trust a Buddhists teaching over You Tube.....

Did your Video come from someone in authority as it proved you to be ' correct '

You didn't take the care to see what I linked, but if you did, you'd see it was a comedy video. It is obvious in context that what I posted was ironic humour. What strikes me is, you didn't find it relevant enough to open it, but suddenly it's relevant enough to comment on. The reason it has suddenly become relevant is you think it can be used to expose my hypocrisy (which indicates your intent), but if proper care was taken to understand what I posted, it would be perfectly clear that it indicates no such thing.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Anything like this?



https://metta.org/dharma-contemplati...actice-phases/

Something similar, obviously if it's done alone you adapt it slightly. I like these few words.....

' The fruits of our contemplation settle as they may, ready to rise up when evoked by life’s conditions '

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by Gem

indicates... intent

I'm not sure it is intent as it is probably subconscious. Is there a word for subconscious intent? I'm not sure but there is some psychological causes though.

Imagine you are invited to a birthday party. You have a zillion things to do but you are determined to go. You even buy an expensive gift, more than you can afford, for the person whose birthday it is. Then as you get in your car to drive to the party, you see an elderly person fall in the street then a car runs over their legs. You rush to the street and block traffic and call 911. After 40 minutes the police show up and medical help. By the time the police are done questioning you, two hours have gone by. You are so shook up and realizing the party is probably over by now, you go inside your house and call it a night.

The next day you find out the birthday person called everyone they knew and told them you did not come to the party because you dislike them so much. This person convinced all your mutual friends what a horrible person you are. They said you purposely said you would come and then did not so they would waste money buying you food. So convincing was this person, you find a lot of your mutual friends have disowned you. You find out the birthday person trashed you for snubbing them during the entire party.

Another example:

Say you sell something and when giving the person their change you accidentally short them a dollar. They count their change and start yelling, thief! This person is a low down dirty thief! Grab them!

These are examples of delusion and false interpretation. It is falsely adding a untrue "why" to events or experiences. What's interesting is these types of persons actually believe the false interpretations their brains come up with. I'm not sure why people do this type of activity but it is fairly common. Some do it more than others. Some do it in relatively mundane ways and others ruin lives and cause a lot of hurt and pain through this phenomenon.

When a person is in a position of authority and is prone to do this type of thing, they can ruin a lot of lives. The why is so wrapped up in the emotions and drives and feelings of persons. One's childhood probably has a lot to do with it as well, the relationships they had with their caregivers play into it I'm sure. The reality is there is a lot of tunnel vision among humankind. We only see our own tiny biased view. Then making it worse, some people are not open minded or questioning of their own truths at all. So if something pops into their minds, they treat it like hard truth. Then they work to convince others of the same false views.

Like how in the first example a person missed a party due to an accident, but the birthday person said they missed it due to them being a hateful person, one can post something, and somebody replys....oh look you are unable to follow what you write etc.

If I had to guess, I would say some kind of repressed anger is involved. That's how it seems to me. It's not really personal as any target will serve the same purpose. One gets the brunt of it just because they are available to be used. If one was not there, it would be done to somebody else. I think it is a lot more common than we realize. But like I said, most if the time we are guilty of it, nobody notices as it is not made into a big deal. Like you are driving down the road and you see somebody on the side of the road point at you. You think, "what a jerk he flipped me off....I hate people around here...." when the person was trying to alert you to a cat nearby. Things like that. I had a vain friend once when I was a teenager and every time he noticed a girl looking at him, he told me she was interested in him. He did this constantly even if some girl in a car just glanced in his direction when making a turn.

Our brains come up with a lot of non-sense. The question is, does one accept everything that pops into their heads or do they have the ability to question it, to not accept it all?

[Rain95]

I remember once I read, you can only disparage something in another that you yourself carry and deny is there.

Another one that seems to have a lot of truth in it is: you can only be angry with someone if you want something from them.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Studying includes contemplating if the subject is understanding yourself or life.
I would hope one is thinking about and applying what they have read if the subject
is religion, spirituality, or philosophy.

Studying and memorizing, with no thinking about what you have read, or contemplating,
seems to be your definition. That's good for some subjects like spelling or vocabulary,
but not so good for true understanding. It has to be applied to experience to move from
the conceptual to true knowledge and truth.
________________________________________

From a dictionary online:

stud·y
ˈstədē/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: studying
1.
devote time and attention to acquiring knowledge on (an academic subject), especially by means of books.
"she studied biology and botany"
synonyms: learn, read, be taught
"he studied electronics"
2.
look at closely in order to observe

***********************************************

con·tem·plate
ˈkän(t)əmˌplāt/Submit
verb
look thoughtfully for a long time at.

think about.

synonyms: think about, ponder, reflect on, consider, mull over, muse on, dwell on, deliberate over, meditate on, ruminate on, chew over, brood on/about, turn over in one's mind; More
think profoundly and at length

' What we plant in the soil of contemplation, we shall reap in the harvest of action.'

I must stop contemplating on Choc Fudge Cake with cream.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Rain95

I'm not sure it is intent as it is probably subconscious. Is there a word for subconscious intent?

It's a good question... I'll have to address it later.

I'm not sure but there is some psychological causes though.

Imagine you are invited to a birthday party. You have a zillion things to do but you are determined to go. You even buy an expensive gift, more than you can afford, for the person whose birthday it is. Then as you get in your car to drive to the party, you see an elderly person fall in the street then a car runs over their legs. You rush to the street and block traffic and call 911. After 40 minutes the police show up and medical help. By the time the police are done questioning you, two hours have gone by. You are so shook up and realizing the party is probably over by now, you go inside your house and call it a night.

The next day you find out the birthday person called everyone they knew and told them you did not come to the party because you dislike them so much. This person convinced all your mutual friends what a horrible person you are. They said you purposely said you would come and then did not so they would waste money buying you food. So convincing was this person, you find a lot of your mutual friends have disowned you. You find out the birthday person trashed you for snubbing them during the entire party.

Another example:

Say you sell something and when giving the person their change you accidentally short them a dollar. They count their change and start yelling, thief! This person is a low down dirty thief! Grab them!

These are examples of delusion and false interpretation. It is falsely adding a untrue "why" to events or experiences. What's interesting is these types of persons actually believe the false interpretations their brains come up with. I'm not sure why people do this type of activity but it is fairly common. Some do it more than others. Some do it in relatively mundane ways and others ruin lives and cause a lot of hurt and pain through this phenomenon.

When a person is in a position of authority and is prone to do this type of thing, they can ruin a lot of lives. The why is so wrapped up in the emotions and drives and feelings of persons. One's childhood probably has a lot to do with it as well, the relationships they had with their caregivers play into it I'm sure. The reality is there is a lot of tunnel vision among humankind. We only see our own tiny biased view. Then making it worse, some people are not open minded or questioning of their own truths at all. So if something pops into their minds, they treat it like hard truth. Then they work to convince others of the same false views.

Like how in the first example a person missed a party due to an accident, but the birthday person said they missed it due to them being a hateful person, one can post something, and somebody replys....oh look you are unable to follow what you write etc.

If I had to guess, I would say some kind of repressed anger is involved. That's how it seems to me. It's not really personal as any target will serve the same purpose. One gets the brunt of it just because they are available to be used. If one was not there, it would be done to somebody else. I think it is a lot more common than we realize. But like I said, most if the time we are guilty of it, nobody notices as it is not made into a big deal. Like you are driving down the road and you see somebody on the side of the road point at you. You think, "what a jerk he flipped me off....I hate people around here...." when the person was trying to alert you to a cat nearby. Things like that. I had a vain friend once when I was a teenager and every time he noticed a girl looking at him, he told me she was interested in him. He did this constantly even if some girl in a car just glanced in his direction when making a turn.

Our brains come up with a lot of non-sense. The question is, does one accept everything that pops into their heads or do they have the ability to question it, to not accept it all?

Good analogies... I'll come back to it because I'm actually headed out to a party now...

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

You didn't take the care to see what I linked, but if you did, you'd see it was a comedy video. It is obvious in context that what I posted was ironic humour. What strikes me is, you didn't find it relevant enough to open it, but suddenly it's relevant enough to comment on. The reason it has suddenly become relevant is you think it can be used to expose my hypocrisy (which indicates your intent), but if proper care was taken to understand what I posted, it would be perfectly clear that it indicates no such thing.

(' which indicates your intent' )



Posting a Video and wanting others to view it also indicates your intent

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

(' which indicates your intent' )



Posting a Video and wanting others to view it also indicates your intent

I think it's a common communication to acknowledge that you missed the humourous context of my post and misunderstood what I said. This reply seems unusual.