Bodhidharma's Definition of Zen

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by beesliketoplay

For those who are interested in genuine Zen practice, here are some talks from actual Zen teachers and genuine practitioners:

The last time I went to one of these links the head Zen teacher and "Master" had just resigned because he was having an affair with the wife of another member. How do you know these people are "genuine?" What is your definition of the word "genuine?" What authority verifies these are not false teachers or teachings? You believe all of these places are run by enlightened people? What do you base these beliefs on?

Edit: I went to some of your "genuine" Zen teachers and found stuff like this...

I would add, we are quite fearful to see our inner mind, we fear what demons might lurk there.

That is not Zen teachings. I really don't know what it is. What is the heck is the inner mind? Is there an outer mind as well? We fear demons in our mind? Sounds like Witchcraft, not Zen.

[Jeremy Bong]

Dumb teacher---books啞吧老师。

I can challenge any Buddhist here that only by this wrong interpretation/percetion that he/they doesn't need teacher. Isn't he not know that what he quote from books of others and learning from them are from teachers. And telling the world that he no need a teacher at all. Can it just personal delusional notion or self egoism.

Just to define "no need "to have teacher means what he does only by himself or be a no head fly flying 无头苍蝇乱撞around knocking walls or may drop into the drain.

So how he started to meditation, to realize emptiness, to know even Buddha..... I think they are all information from others. That means from someone named teacher even from family members.

Most people are learning from internet nowadays, I wonder the information from Google may or mayn't call as "Google teacher"------ it's a way from Google teachers....they are human inspiration or knowledge. Some may say, Buddhism is not a knowledge but information is in a form of knowledge/experience.

Aren't you don't know books are "DUMB TEACHER" so who on this world no need to have a teacher to learning Buddhism. You may say, I don't need a human teacher but I need a dumb teacher or Google teacher. They are called teachers.

[Jeremy Bong]

I only appreciate the" case by case basis" not count as/for all of them. I am a Hugh/tall guy then I can't tell all people that human are tall guys.

[RyanWind]

Everything in life we learn from is a teacher. So everyone's lives are full of teachers. The question is, in this moment, right now, what do we feel we still "need" to learn and who can provide this thing we are imagining we need?

That's why I ask people who state they need teachers to state what they feel they need. What is lacking in yourself right now that you feel a teacher can give you?

So far everyone who claims they need a teacher can't answer the question.

[sky]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Everything in life we learn from is a teacher. So everyone's lives are full of teachers. The question is, in this moment, right now, what do we feel we still "need" to learn and who can provide this thing we are imagining we need?

That's why I ask people who state they need teachers to state what they feel they need. What is lacking in yourself right now that you feel a teacher can give you?

So far everyone who claims they need a teacher can't answer the question.

Mybe the one's who say they need a teacher need a teacher to tell them why they need a teacher

[Jeremy Bong]

Seeking for teacher.

People thirst for knowledge is a progressive/normal action. Different people have different degree of seeking knowledge. They usually look for knowledge already known by others not invention/creation.

For me I only seek for creative talent from creation techniques not that hard for me when one has reached my level. One should learn intelligence and common knowledge to advance/farther his knowledge or analysis or conclusion ability.

We are sponge can absorb tons of information and can have self checking how well we can see things correctly. We should training ourselves from very young age or any right time we want.

You may hard for seeking for a right teacher, I have two methods: treat ourselves as teaching source(to invent methods by yourself), it's before you have a talent advanced teacher you learn by yourself. Or look for another teacher elsewhere.

When someone is famous you are hard to be accepted as his apprentice. So learn from someone who can teaching you about something you don't know that's no need to have a talent advance teacher in your lifetime or you may find one.

Buddhism is teaching you to learn to be a good person with no desire ---everything is void. That's to judge you, how good you are with others? So ponder how good you can be so far. And Buddha will teach you or not? That's the right method to find the right teacher.

You want a Buddha to be your teacher then you can't be cunning to others and cheating all the ways of your life. It's not you to seek a teacher but when he want you to be his apprentice.

Like my friend purely form Gods, I never teach them any dharma but they want me as their mentor. Now they never ask too much from me and I have told them why I can't teach them......

[Gem]

Originally Posted by beesliketoplay

This is not quite true Gem, the Tibetan, Theravadan, Zen and other main traditions have a tradition and system of teachers.

I understand that you are always suspicious of anything which takes away your "authenticity" or your ability to be "you", but that is your personal bias.

I don't think I said any of that.

And it does not preclude the reality of what all Buddhist traditions, starting with Gautama who had many devoted disciples of decades, and whose whole basis was in oral transmission (which was recorded in Suttas).

I'm totally in favour with the teachings of the Buddha.

In Theravada, you would know that Ajahn Sumedho etc. studied for years under Ajahn Chah, Thanissaro Bhikkhu studied for years under Ajahn Fuang. Whilst the relationship in the monastic tradition may appear dissimilar to the Gurus of Tibetan, pertaining to laymen interactions which you may be most familiar with, it is nonetheless based on a system of respect, teaching, and recognition that despite what "Buddhism for dummies" and in particular this forum might espouse, Buddhism has depths that are not written on message boards and potent, transcendental insights that are only known to those deeply realized in its practices and pointings. "Liberation" and "Transcendental freedom" are not jokes - but actual, realized promises.

I've hung with a few spiritual teachers, myself, including some who taught in Buddhist contexts. It's just not a single one them even implied that they were necessary to me.

I respect your position, and your intentions, but just wanted to add this to the conversation

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Self

Or we could simply state, if it's so, that in our lives we saw the value in a teacher at times. I think that way would make for healthier conversations. Don't you think?

There is good reason to have support on ones spiritual undertaking, but it's a complicated thing, and most people parading themselves as teachers don't understand things all that well.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Everything in life we learn from is a teacher. So everyone's lives are full of teachers. The question is, in this moment, right now, what do we feel we still "need" to learn and who can provide this thing we are imagining we need?

That's why I ask people who state they need teachers to state what they feel they need. What is lacking in yourself right now that you feel a teacher can give you?

So far everyone who claims they need a teacher can't answer the question.

Your second question, to me, speaks to the meditation where one actually becomes aware in the way your question prompts. That, I consider a teaching,

[Gem]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Self awareness is the key in all of this.

You're on fire today!