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  #51  
Old 08-03-2012, 08:16 AM
sound sound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf
The problem is in my mind, but my mind isn't the problem

Yes ... i agree .... this is beyond the concept of thinking mind is the problem, which seems to involve repeating that as a mantra to keep the mind convinced of its own 'supposed' uselessness ... quite bizarre really in the bigger picture ... mind trying to defeat its own purpose ...
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  #52  
Old 08-03-2012, 09:56 AM
Mountain-Goat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf
For me it's constant task, from sun up to sun down everyday. But it's so simple to do it's not a problem at all. The hard part is learning to always take responsibility.

Neat story!
The more successes you achieve on your journey, the easier the task becomes. Slowly it becomes natural.

I have noticed a phenomenon when gaining mastery of something new.
I don't know if this applies to others but it's how it goes for me.
It's the physics of momentum.
It's usually a huge struggle when I first begin a new endeavour and it feels like this struggle period goes on forever and it doesn't look like it's getting easier.
Then sort of overnight...wham...it 's a piece of cake.
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  #53  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:07 AM
Mountain-Goat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
Osho said "mind is not diseased - mind IS THE DISEASE". He was correct.

Be well.
"There are no problem children, only children with problems."
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  #54  
Old 08-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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To Sound and Alternate Carpark

The idea of mind as being the disease itself means:

We are not the mind...

The idea of being in meditation is to exist in a space that is (mostly) beyond mind.

We can't exist in it completely beyond mind or we would cease to exist.

All of this is very difficult for people to grasp if they believe they are the body only and that mind cannot exist without a brain. Even in neuroscience the researchers have realized that mind is something other than the brain, although it uses the brain. Daniel Siegal says that he has asked 100,000 academics so far and only a tiny percentage have even attempted to define what "mind" is. This is because, western science as it is, limits mind to body functions.
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  #55  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Seawolf Seawolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark
The more successes you achieve on your journey, the easier the task becomes. Slowly it becomes natural.

I have noticed a phenomenon when gaining mastery of something new.
I don't know if this applies to others but it's how it goes for me.
It's the physics of momentum.
It's usually a huge struggle when I first begin a new endeavour and it feels like this struggle period goes on forever and it doesn't look like it's getting easier.
Then sort of overnight...wham...it 's a piece of cake.
I do it so much that it's starting to become natural like you say. I think I understand why they say in the bible to 'pray without ceasing'. It's not about being desperate or trying to 'arrive' like I used to think of that verse, it's like breathing. I want to keep it up so it becomes natural like that.
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  #56  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:44 PM
Xan Xan is offline
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Osho said "mind is not diseased - mind IS THE DISEASE".

The problem is in my mind, but my mind isn't the problem...



For once I disagree with Osho. The mind itself is just a function for living in this world. It's become distorted and diseased by mistaking the mind and its beliefs for what we are.

It's our over involvement and clinging in the mind with its fixed definitions of self and of life... its rigid conditioning that's the problem or dis-ease.

Many of us have begun undoing and healing the negative programming... but even that can become over involvement and a fixed identity... as can a spiritual identity based on learned ideas.

Our true nature beyond the mind is unlearned, unconditioned and already free. As we release the layers held in the mind that have been hiding it, there we are as we've always been... whole awareness and pure love.


Xan
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Go within, beloveds. Go deep within to the Heart of your Being.
The Truth is found there and nowhere else.-Sananda

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  #57  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:50 PM
Mountain-Goat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
To Sound and Alternate Carpark

The idea of mind as being the disease itself means:

We are not the mind...

The idea of being in meditation is to exist in a space that is (mostly) beyond mind.

We can't exist in it completely beyond mind or we would cease to exist.
Meditation is something a mind does.
It's stilling the mind, not existing beyond mind.
Why do you think Buddha said, "concentrate the mind" and not "exist beyond mind"?

Clear the mind of it's diseases, not that the mind is a disease.
It's unfocused thoughts, it's irrational illogical thoughts that war against each other and cause all manner of mental dysfunctions.

A body is not a disease, the body can contain disease.
A child is not a problem, a child can have problems.
A person is not insane, they can contain insane ideas.


If the mind is a disease, then every thought that everyone has ever expressed throughout history is bad.
But if mind is not a disease, then some thoughts are good and some not.
As evidenced so obviously by the way people behave.
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  #58  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Xan Xan is offline
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As for it becoming easier... sometimes it does at least for a while, but it all depends on how far you want to go.

In my experience we just get better at facing the challenges and integrating the changes more quickly.


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Go within, beloveds. Go deep within to the Heart of your Being.
The Truth is found there and nowhere else.-Sananda

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  #59  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:12 PM
Mountain-Goat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf
I do it so much that it's starting to become natural like you say. I think I understand why they say in the bible to 'pray without ceasing'. It's not about being desperate or trying to 'arrive' like I used to think of that verse, it's like breathing. I want to keep it up so it becomes natural like that.
One part of why it becomes easier is you are changing thought habits.
And it's also why it's hard at the beginning.
Change\transformation..and the uncomfortable sensations felt in doing so, even if you are conscious, willing and joyful about changing to a positive state.
When I was in the psych ward in 2008, I had a few sessions with the psychologist.
The gave this simple example of why one part of why change is difficult.

He asked me to fold my arms. I did so with complete ease. It was natural for me. I fold with right arm over left.
He then said to fold left arm over right.
Not only did my brain struggle with positioning my left over my right, but once i finally figured it out,
with arms folded in this new position, it felt really ncomfortable...unnatural.

Changing long term ingrained thought habits...perhasp you can envision the difficulties and the uncomfortableness of these endeavours.
And why perseverence reduces both of them.
One is transitioning from one natural state to another, and it's the season of change, the transition phase that produces the most discomfort.

My son, pre-teens...boy did he struggle with learning a new skill.
He envisioned, had the ideal in his mind as to what he wanted to achieve, learning a new trick on his bmx as a clear example i can recall.

He would watch other kids do this trick, imagined it in his mind that he could do this,
but when attempting it, failed time and time again.
And it was during this learning transition phase that he became upset with himself because he expected reality to match his inner ideal of being able to do this trick.
In his mind, while observing others, he concluded this was easy to do.
But what he did not have prior knowledge of was the actual experience, the ability to co ordinate his mind and body to be able to successfully do this trick.
He was not experienced, due to age, that learning a new skill requires practice, from learning from one's mistakes when attempting said trick,
from observing and evaluating each effort and reasoning what needs changing and adjusting and continuing the triall and error process till the desired result is obtained.

Within these types of learning experiences he became more aware of himself, his mind, his body, how his upset emotions cloud his reasoning and ability and desire to continue learning.

By mid to late teens he had already surpassed me in the abilty to create his own life and change what needed changing.
I began my self mastery mid 30's..Imma so proud of my son that he began his in his teen years.
Same with my dawta, she too was doing so in her mid teens.
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  #60  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:30 PM
Swami Chihuahuananda Swami Chihuahuananda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
Greetings..

You and mind are one.. mind never dominates, that belief is simply a misunderstanding of 'what you are'..

Be well..

and when 'what you are' is seen more fully , mind operates and is seen differently, not as an enemy or part of self that is 'bad' , eh ?
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