Narcissism and Spiritual Materialism

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Being

Honestly, i think that the article is awful.

We only really know our own experience.

i have my own understandings & perspectives on 'everything'.

i do question a lot more who & what is genuinely & deeply spiritual, who is genuinely self / God realised & individuated, but there are billions of paths up & down the mountain, & everyone is at different points within their soul journey. i do think that there are a lot of frauds out there, a lot of nonsense being spoken, a lot of bad teachings & intentions (conscious & unconscious), a lot of fake Gurus.

Many millions of people are now all claiming that they are spiritual, enlightened, awake, healers, shamans, witches, Guru's & everything else. i don't really trust a lot of what people are claiming. Anyone can read a few books, do a short healing course, buy a few crystals, look some stuff up on-line & claim anything that they like, but it doesn't make them genuinely deeply spiritual. It's easy to learn the spiel.

Nothing wrong per se in anyone having any interests that they like & having a spiritual path, but when anyone starts claiming that there are this & that it makes me wary. i don't think that the genuinely deeply spiritual do make any claims. & many people that make all these spirituality claims, when pressed often hold a lot of Ego, Anger, fear & very unenlightened views. i had a couple on threads on here that were exploring what i feel are far more civilised social systems - a lot of the reactions to those threads were shocking, those people aren't spiritual to my mind, in any genuine sense of the word, & i think that this is true of many people within all these areas.

If so many people were so genuinely spiritual this World / society / system / 'Civilisation' would Not be the way it currently is, very far from it.

i think it's great that there is a more open spiritual movement within the World, & people exploring all these areas. But close observation of people & this society, it's incredibly few people to my understanding that show any genuine & deep spirituality. A lot of spiritual Ego, a lot of spiritual materialism, a lot of talking about it all, a lot of earning money out of it all & using it all for other personal gain, a lot of people wanting others to think how wonderful they are. A lot of peoples actual actions & behaviour shows everything you need to know about them. If anything, same as before WW2, where there was the same upsurge in interests within all these areas, the World / Global 'Civilisation' is becoming less spiritual. The rise of Global right wing popularism, far right, less equality, more poverty, more suffering, more hatred, lies, conflict, division, argument, ego, environmental destruction, pollution, violence, anti intellectualism, dwindling freedoms, Nationalism, racism, worse & worse treatment of all vulnerable & minority groups, greed & fear.

i don't really see the evidence for the imminent birth of some new Golden Age - quite the opposite.

What you present, Being, brings some thoughts to me.

When defining something as being this or that, this can lead to conflicts, IMO.
Society seems to do this in general and it is not just what is termed spirituality.

What I come to notice it is both this and that, also what may not be noticed by me. It at times seem to do what it will do. Such is creation and life unfolding.

As with anything that is brought into ones awareness or general consciousness, the question arises; what can be done? Which, suppose is affected how it is interpreted and whether there is any interest in it at all.

Yes, there are issues to deal with. There are patterns that seemed follow that may create or feed into the issues. There are materialistic greed, apathy, and fear.

I am not out to take on the world or convert others. I learned and do what I am capable of to treat others with respect and accept others. Doesn't mean will always agree, but atleast give them the space to have a voice.

I agree, Spiritual is not something one boasts it something incorporated into life and lived. I don't usually think whether one is or isn't spiritual, most times it is just felt and basically go with how the other responds and treats me.

Yes, spirituality gets marketed and there are charlatans out there. This where using ones good sense comes in handy. But, the marketing has also brought it into the mainstream. People (in general) are a little bit more aware of one own empowerment and ( will say) divinity in thier own way. But yes, not all that glitters is gold (so to speak).

Also, among the conflicts I still see acts of goodness. People. For the most part, feel, want to do good. Sometimes may not know or afraid of rejection. It seems though in times of disasters people will pull together and don't ask about race or belief.

Yes, action speak louder then words.

Don't know where all this is going. guess at present, stuck with being human , so make the best of it as one is able and willing. Not a solo act and at times what seems like a small act can have a big impact.

In another post here you mention passion. Feel this is important to have. At the same time, not to fully let fear overtake the mind. Seems many are passionate about something. Suppose the thing to pay attention to is not to let it make me rigid, but more compassionate and aware.

Thank you for your thoughts

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Raziel

... especially in America
.... Thug culture is a huge part of America's problems ...

Okay. We got it. You despise America. This distracts from whatever your message intends to convey.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Okay. We got it. You despise America. This distracts from whatever your message intends to convey.

Erm no ...

I LOVE America.

The constitution & Bill of Rights are the cornerstone of a Democratic Republic.

I honeymooned there in 2009.

Thug culture is not really the same as Americana.

I've said often that my first hero was Mr. T - he was someone the kids could look up to - he was a modern day Hercules to us. He wouldn't have supported Thug culture.

Carl Weathers (Apollo Creed ) was THE man in the Rocky movies - it's why it was such a triumph to overcome him in the story - he oozed class & charisma. He wouldn't have supported Thug culture.

Lando Calrissian was AS cool as Han Solo - again no Thuggin & buggin there ..

Thug culture was glamorised in music & movies & became a disease within American society.

~

Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent, Dr Dre, 2pac, Notorious BIG all sold the notion that crime pays to generations of impressionable kids.

http://www.nme.com/news/music/snoop-dogg-72-1262899
https://nypost.com/2005/08/04/50-cen...ake-it-in-rap/

My message was already stated - Thug culture glamorised crime hence more criminals.

It's happened before in the 60's & 70's - bands glamorised drugs & rebellion. I probably lived through the consequences of that without even realising. Thug culture grew as I did & it steadily became more extreme.

Hence me hating what it has done to American kids.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Erm no ...

I LOVE America.

...


My message was already stated - Thug culture glamorised crime hence more criminals.

It's happened before in the 60's & 70's - bands glamorised drugs & rebellion. I probably lived through the consequences of that without even realising. Thug culture grew as I did & it steadily became more extreme.

Hence me hating what it has done to American kids.

Seth (a different perspective):

"Television interacts with your lives, but it does not cause your lives. It does not cause the events that it depicts. With your great belief in technology, it often seems to many people that television causes violence, for example, or that it causes a love of over-materialism, or that it causes unloose morals.

Television reflects. In a manner of speaking it does not even distort, though it may reflect distortions.

The igniters and actors of television dramas are attuned to the mass mind. They are not leaders or followers. They are creative reflectors, acutely aware of the overall, generalized emotional and psychic patterns of the age."

Session 815, Page 74

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Seth (a different perspective):

"Television interacts with your lives, but it does not cause your lives. It does not cause the events that it depicts. With your great belief in technology, it often seems to many people that television causes violence, for example, or that it causes a love of over-materialism, or that it causes unloose morals.

Television reflects. In a manner of speaking it does not even distort, though it may reflect distortions.

The igniters and actors of television dramas are attuned to the mass mind. They are not leaders or followers. They are creative reflectors, acutely aware of the overall, generalized emotional and psychic patterns of the age."

Session 815, Page 74

That's not accurate.

Those who create "programming" certainly influence culture & opinion - why would there be so much fear of "fake news" if not?

People wouldn't choose holiday destinations without photo or video pitching the location to them first.

Porn is a big concern in some circles as it creates false expectation within relationships.

Why was propaganda considered so powerful by the Nazis if T.v & radio has no influence?

https://op-talk.blogs.nytimes.com/20...nge-our-minds/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...nalyzed-292682

.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Raziel

That's not accurate.

Those who create "programming" certainly influence culture & opinion - why would there be so much fear of "fake news" if not?

People wouldn't choose holiday destinations without photo or video pitching the location to them first.

Porn is a big concern in some circles as it creates false expectation within relationships.

Why was propaganda considered so powerful by the Nazis if T.v & radio has no influence?

https://op-talk.blogs.nytimes.com/20...nge-our-minds/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...nalyzed-292682

.

We all see only what we believe.

I see your point, but I agree more with Seth's. His comes from the perspective that each one of us creates our own reality from our thoughts and our beliefs. He says that what's happening to you is your own doing.

You seem to blame the others, and not only for what they are themselves, but for the groups you divide them into: nationality, profession, etc.. Surely, statistics is a helpful tool in the struggle for survival, but it can easily slip easily into incorrect discrimination.

[Being]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Would you be prepared to elaborate a little further?

It is very hard to try & define in words. There is the whole problem in trying to define what religion & spirituality is.

What could be described as someone who is more a genuine master, self / god realised / individuated - is quantifiably different in my view.

Hermes Trismegistus , Krishna, Buddha, Jeshua, Mahavatar Babaji - within a more modern sense; Ramana Maharshi, Bede Griffiths, Robert Adams, Anthony "Tony" de Mello, Paramahansa Yogananda, Jiddu Krishnamurti, many others.

There are in my view genuine Avatars, Holy Men, the Self / God Realised, Final Incarnations, Saints & others.

There are those who have / do embody a highly disciplined adherence to spiritual principles & 'attain' a genuine inner transformation. Who come to a more direct realisation of the truth.

This is where we get into all the whole debate about the nature of truth & reality, but to my understanding & experience there is what can be considered a universal wisdom which does very much point to a universal truth concerning the nature of reality, & is reflected within all the World's religious / spiritual teachings. There is so much which correlates within all the World's traditions, wisdom & experiences.

i can't summarise it all. i can't summarise all my own journey & experience with it all. Some 38 years of studying all these areas, & some 16 years of a more dedicated contemplative / spiritual practice. It is like trying to describe my soul, it can't be done.

[Being]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I see your point, but I agree more with Seth's. His comes from the perspective that each one of us creates our own reality from our thoughts and our beliefs. He says that what's happening to you is your own doing.

That is simply untrue, there is an objective physical reality / cosmos & objective spiritual realms / realities.

[Being]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

When defining something as being this or that, this can lead to conflicts, IMO.

i agree. This Quote really annoys some people -

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” ― Jiddu Krishnamurti.

The problem is Ego.

Within my own Being i can square all the different positions / arguments. On one level i don't see really why there is any argument?

Yes, spirituality gets marketed and there are charlatans out there. This where using ones good sense comes in handy. But, the marketing has also brought it into the mainstream. People (in general) are a little bit more aware of one own empowerment and ( will say) divinity in thier own way. But yes, not all that glitters is gold (so to speak).

i take issue with the monetarisation & commercialisation of spirituality. In incorporating spirituality within the paradigm of capitalism & consumerism. i stand largely opposed to the economic / political / exoteric religious system on this earth.

It seemed to start with the Master Key System, Think & Grow Rich - & others, & has snowballed from there over the past 120 to 150 odd years. i find something very insidious about it all.

In another post here you mention passion. Feel this is important to have. At the same time, not to fully let fear overtake the mind. Seems many are passionate about something. Suppose the thing to pay attention to is not to let it make me rigid, but more compassionate and aware.

Thank you for your thoughts

Thanks. Yes - to try & adhere to compassion, being humble, service - kindness, gentleness & peace. Acceptance of everything as it is. Stop & Be still, know I am.

i can only do things within a very small sense within my own sphere's of influence.

[Being]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Would you be prepared to elaborate a little further?

To my understanding as already said, i do see a certain universality within spiritual teachings, principles & wisdom.

The Perennial Wisdom -

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ts/pere_wis.htm

Universal spiritual principles

http://www.allisnow.com/blog/spiritual-principles/

i don't follow any specific religion / system.

i think a lot of people have a problem with all this.

i started a thread on it all some time ago -

The Perennial Philosophy, Ancient Wisdom, Universalist & Omnist etc View

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=108114