karma

Creator - -

If I remember correctly - - I never said I have found the

Hey Glorymist ,

Sorry for assuming anything your writings just came off that way to me. I totally see your point though. And I do look at myself and the things you say all the time. And I can

Here's another lovely little quote from Joan Tollifson's website:~

'Waking up is something quite different. It relies not on belief, but on seeing directly. It is not so much about finding the truth, but rather about seeing through the illusion -- not once and for all, but now, and now, and now. Waking up is not about knowing the answers; it is about learning to live in that open space of not knowing. It is about giving attention to what actually is, just as it is. It is the discovery of what happens when all beliefs and answers are left behind.'

Thanks for that Joan.

http://home.earthlink.net/~wakeupjt/rcommndd.htm

Hey Glorymist,

don't leave now it's just getting good. Come on you can't say we are getting angry with you, i know i'm not and i think creator was just making a valid point that things can be looked at in different ways, and you have to admit you aren't the best at seeing someone elses point of view sometimes. I'm saying this in a lighthearted way cos i don't want you to feel like your being got at, i think your posts are great and very interesting and you display an exceptional depth of perception for the working of things sometimes........sometimes i disagree with what you say but do you really care what i think? and if you do you really shouldn't (too much anyway).

I am really interested to hear about your experiences, you sound as though you have experienced a lot, and really don't get tooo caught up in worrying about what other people think, what is the worst that can happen? and who's to say that anyone exists outside of your mind anyway?

I really enjoyed your posts today, they were interesting and came from direct experience rather than this arguing over semantics that we've all got involved in recently. Your thoughts on essences were particularly interesting, i had been going to write you one on the same theme - jinx.

One question to consider is what is the essence of the truth or is truth the essence of everything? This i think is what bob is trying to say, and it is certainly what i mean when talking about this as is now. Everything is the truth of this moment and the essence of this truth never changes it only appears to do so. imho of course.

See we all love you glorymist, 3 posts in 5 minutes.

Creator - -

EXACTLY ! ! Absolutely right on the button ! !

All I have ever done - - is offer suggestions.

If someone is having trouble - - I will simply suggest - - "Look here."

If someone is heading off into the Cosmos and believes they are heading into a wonderful adventure but I know for a fact that they are simply digging themselves a HUGE pit - - I will simply suggest - - "Look there ! !"

If someone simply wishes to consider something new - - I will do the same.

Yes - - I know I have to let people blow their own lives apart. I just figured - - my GOSH ! ! - - people wouldn't play Russian Roulette with a loaded gun. That's what some of these people are doing ! ! But - - they love doing it - - and will tell me I'm errant for suggesting they might consider taking the gun away from their head.

Bob23 - - that's exactly what I am trying to suggest to some people ! ! "Seeing directly." What various people are showing me - - is that they do not wish to do so - - and have an ever-growing list of reasons why they don't have to. Period. "Look at what is going on around you ! !" People will answer - - "Don't wanna. Don't havta. Don't need to."

And dreamer - - it's the fact that I DO see other people's viewpoints that I try to steer them elsewhere. Why ?? I've been trapped there myself. How else would I recognize where NOT to go unless I've wallowed in the mire myself.

Tell me, dreamer - - does it really matter that much to you to find out exactly which "classroom" a lesson was learned ?? Exactly what caused the lesson to be brought home ?? Does it matter who taught you 2+2=4 ?? Doesn't it only matter that one knows that it does ?? And can show you why ??

And who is to say anyone exists outside of my mind ?? It is statements like that that make me just rock back and - - shake my head. I mean - - my GOSH ! ! People still use that junk to justify remaining where they are. It absolutely astounds me ! !

Semantics - - what words mean what - - especially when someone builds in the words that form their own beliefs - - means - - EVERY-thing ! ! Until they get out of the worlds of duality. And the people who are claiming they are doing that - - getting beyond duality - - by twisting a few words and concepts around - - are totally ignorant of what LIFE is and are living an empty pipe dream.

Period ! !

And people wonder how far mankind has come ! !

And in my very humble opinion - - Bob23 needs to consider a LOT of other issues before he begins to deal with the "essence of truth" - - or any other way you want to put those words down in a sentence.

No - - I am NOT getting angry at all of this. Just - - discouraged. And - - acceptant. People truly DO want to stay stuck in the bog. They really DO want to head off into blind alleys. That is their preference. I mean - - they really DO want to be lost ! ! Even on just little things. That's what they want ! !

It astounds me ! ! It really does. It does NOT make me angry or anything. I am neither angry nor upset. Just - - surprised. Amazed. And I simply concede to their choices.

I care - - because I know how tough it is to get clear, decent information as to what LIFE is and how IT works. It doesn't happen often in a person's lifetime. People can gather LOTS of mental info. Trivia. Just like collecting stamps and such. But to have a chance to get actual clarification ?? It's a VERY rare opportunity. And - - when it happens - - they don't get too many repeat occurrences. But people are now caught up in all the misunderstandings of various partial truths nowadays - - and they LOVE it ! ! They would prefer to continue to mis-believe - - then to take the risk in simply refining their viewpoint a bit. Heck - - I'm not asking anyone to totally give up their beliefs. I'm not asking a Christian to give up their beliefs in Christ. Nor am I asking anyone to give up their believes in God at all.

All I am saying - - is just - - LOOK - - people ! ! Worda and concepts are being taken and they are being totally misconstrued ! ! Re-shaped ! ! Bent to benefit someone's pocketbook. It an ageless story ! ! The media - - and its availability - - is being used ! ! Just - - LOOK ! !

But - - nooOOOooo ! !

HeH

Gimme a half-dozen reasons why you should be able to just continue on into the con ! ! Tell me that ! ! Make sure I know that ! ! Why you should be able to continue to believe in a half-truth ! !

Now - - that being said - - in all of the above - - all references to "you" - - are impersonal. It applies to most individuals I run across. That's the nature of the game. And creator is right - - people prefer to wallow instead of sorting it out - - even when it's offered to them on a silver platter to do otherwise - - because they WANT to ! !

Enough said ! !

Dreamer - -

The very last phrase you put in your entry is important enough to warrant an entry in and of itself.

"Everything is the truth of this moment and the essence of this truth never changes it only appears to do so. imho of course."

Each individual - - you, me, anyone - - is the sum total of all they have ever been at any particular moment. They bring it all to bear in each moment of "now." And in each present moment - - they have the ever-present choice of continuing to believe as they have - - or are being led to believe - - or to stop and heavily consider - - and refine.

"Everything is the truth of this moment" means that all misconstructions of truth are now truth in this moment.

All the insinuations of being politically correct, of being a victim, of all paths leading to the same place, of everything just IS (which on one "level" is certainly true but NOT in the worlds of duality), etc. - - all the media hype - - all the ways people can shirk taking responsibility for what they do and think - - on and on and on. It's endless.

It all allows the individual to settle back and accept that everything is the truth of the moment.

That in itself - - that concept right there - - is a perfect example of a partial understanding of a half-truth.

Yet people accept it as a whole truth.

Kewl ! !

Have a good time ! !

I think you are maybe misunderstanding what i am saying. The ESSENCE of the truth is unvarying, the manifestation of the truth alters and changes but the ESSENCE stays the same. If everything is amalgamated and seen as a whole that is when the whole truth and the essence match, that is the gestalt, the unity, oneness etc.

To say that understanding of this allows an individual to sit back and to stay in this same position forever is not my experience at all and is maybe where your misunderstanding stems from. We are ALL drawn towards ahigher understanding of our true nature whether we make an effort to do so, fight against it or whatever, like water down a sink we are drawn towards it. This is my opinion based on logic,intuition and experience, i am open to testing different points of view so if you have a better way of understanding things I'm all ears.

The other thing i was wondering was how can you be so certain that i am not just a figment of your imagination, a thought that is bringing balance to this thought you are currently working with. How can you be certain that you are not a brain in a jar and this whole reality is not just your own subconcious working itself out? If you can give me a definate reason as to why this is 100% not true i would be interested. This isn't a cop out its just an interesting and expansive question, "i" feel. And if i was just a brain in a jar, if this whole reality was just a figment of my imagination, why would that give me any reason not to try and make this reality as perfect and enjoyable as it could be, why would that give me any reason to sit back and think ah, this is it, might as well do nothing? I don't understand your thinking on this at all. Do you really think that anyone would sit back for eternity, forever and make do with a half truth, while the rest of the universe eveolves and grows in understanding and experience of itself? Would there not come a point at which such a soul would say, actually i'd like to have a go at that, that looks worthwhile and of value?

I'm not having a go at all, i just really don't understand your thinking sometimes, you are either talking from a level of understanding that is too advanced for my understanding or you are misunderstanding what is being said. I really can't work out which it is but if there is something i have gotten wrong i'd like to correct it, the truth being the most important thing to me. By the way i don't care where i learn the truth from, and i don't really understand why you wrote a paragraph on this topic. You say some very interesting stuff but sometimes it just seems contradictory to what has been said earlier. Which is all fine, cos this stuff is hard to put into words sometimes but sometimes the contradictions just make no sense to me.

Hope this is okay to say, no offence intended, and if you do know the way and are going to offer it on a silver platter, i will be happy to dine with you (if invited)

[peteyzen]

A question on the karma thread,
nothing to do with karma really (or is it)
If one thinks they know the truth, and works and follows their allotted path,
tries hard, when should they hand in their cards and say enough is enough?

Should they continue regardless, or does a point come when they have to re evaluate? If so when?
This isn`t me, obviously, its a question for a very dear friend of mine, honest.

AACCKK ! ! I think this is my night for not understanding posts ! !

I'm gonna take a stab at it anyway.

I don't know how many people would follow a path if it were their own and was "untrue." To me - - this is impossible. If they are following a path - - it is thier path - - and is their truth at the moment - - they way they see it.

The Path is one of constant revision. Who can write a guideline as to what one should do and when they should do it ! ! I think the infamous Dr. Phil - - TV talk show host - - puts it best. "How's that workin' for ya ?? "

If you Path is working for you - - then why question it. If it is beginning to not fulfill - - or has too many questions - - or whatever - - then - - explore. If you find something you like - - add it to what you already believe. Play with the pieces. Bring them together. The puzzle pieces are supposed to add up to the Big Picture anyway.

If all of this means that someone is gonna dive completely out of one rather major "religion" or whatever and take off completely into another - - well - - there will be consequences - - mostly from the people around them. The individual can keep it quiet. It's pretty much no one else's business anyway.

The Path is always revised. Evaluate the small steps. Evaluate the major aspects. All depends on what has or has not been working for you and how desperate you are in finding something that DOES work - - for the moment or for good.

Now - - if all of this "answer" wasn't close - - then - - peteyzen - - please ask again.

hee hee hee