how do you talk about mindfulness?

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by cryoldman

This begs the question: could some negative thoughts "disguise" themselves to be other thoughts...?

That reminds me of the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think humans are always following thoughts or ideas of beliefs they think are positive and good and moral, and doing things they think are good and spiritual and moral etc which end up causing horrible results and the opposite of good. End up hurting others or even themselves. I think it's not really the bad thoughts are disguising themselves as good thoughts, I think it's a person (consciousness) is not aware of enough. One does not understand enough or see the big picture. One needs more experience and understanding. It we knew or were aware of the negative outcomes of some seemingly positive thoughts, ideas or beliefs, we would never act on them or entertain them. As Krishnamurti often said, it's like seeing a snake. If you saw it, you would want nothing to do with it. The issue is we don't see the dangers or negative outcomes of identifying with thought.

I think all thoughts come before us, consciousness, and we ultimately are the gatekeepers deciding what thoughts to accept or reject. What thoughts to give our energy and attention and which to ignore. But knowing what is what takes wisdom and understanding which can only come though reflection and self awareness and lots and lots of experience. Many thousands of life times some say.

I think in a way we kind of live in a rigged game. Our brains and bodies and this mortal experience makes us self centered. We need food and housing and money and so on to stay alive. These are limited resources and others are also self centered after such things. Our cultures and societies then become a competitive place. So our bodies and brains I think are hardwired to be selfish in a way. Thoughts are generated from this conditioning of self centeredness and so that becomes a big part of what is in our brains as far as thoughts. It's me me me... as a person we get hurt easily by others not liking us or saying bad things to us or treating us bad. This self centered way of seeing the world and ourselves often does not stop even if we seek or practice spiritual things. So ego's becoming bigger with added religion and spiritual pursuits is not uncommon.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by cryoldman

or even mindfulness itself?

Ask somebody to define what mindfulness is and you will probably get a lot of different answers. Same with meditation. Then even if a few agree on definitions, what they are actually doing when they think they are being mindful or meditating can be very different. It's because all of us are individuals and unique. Our experiences are different and our understanding of ourselves and others. I would guess some of the best at practicing "mindfulness" have never heard of it and have never named it. It is just who and what they are.

I think "mindfulness" is a horrible name for it according to how it is defined. . Mind-full-ness.... Full of mind? That's not a good thing is it? Maybe name it Mind-empty-ness! I'm not sure how it would work as a practice as if one came to understand they could not have their attention on their mind or thoughts anytime they want, they would do it pretty much all day long. It would not be a practice, it would be how they were always.

Buddha was believed by some to be "enlightened" which could be defined as "always mindful." Buddha refused to speculate on things that were not present in the now. When asked if he was a God or man? Buddha said, "I'm awake." He could not answer as both God and man are concepts. He did not let his attention go into the conceptual. I'm saying this about the imagined mythological Buddha because I never met him and have no way to know how or what he really was. We tend to put ancient persons that become spiritual cultural icons up on a pedestal but they could have been exactly like us. Normal humans trying to become better.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think "mindfulness" is a horrible name for it according to how it is defined. . Mind-full-ness.... Full of mind? That's not a good thing is it?

I personally have never heard it defined as 'full of mind'
If you are practicing Mindfulness your mind is in the present moment without adding nor subtracting from what's happening in the here and now, mind-full of reality.... If your mind is full there's no space for imagination to deter you from the 'now' and to see things as they are...

[Gem]

Just wanted to point out that in the English language, to be mindful typically means to be conscious and aware.

The way I look at it, if saying 'I did mindfulness for 40 years' comes from vanity, a yearning for admiration, credibility or something like that, then maybe the will behind the statement could be a little off, but if it's just to say 'in my 40 years of experience it seems to me...' then it's just a true thing was said. But the underlying point here is underpinned by the inquiry 'were my intentions pure, or was I impelled by underlying craving?.

I don't want to give the impression that the latter is bad, but only mention it because the OP brought it up, and due to the suffering that craving implies.

I'm glad it came up, because although it's not a popular idea, morality is the cornerstone of mindfulness, and where we wish understand the nature of our intentions and the reason for our impulses, we have to be completely truthful with ourselves.

[Maisy]

I wonder what people define the mind as.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I wonder what people define the mind as.

Our mind is the creator of all our experiences....

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by cryoldman

could some negative thoughts "disguise" themselves to be other thoughts, or even mindfulness itself?

That reminds me of what you said in your first post.

Originally Posted by cryoldman

Kind of developing a super-conscience or a guide to the rightness or wrongness of our thoughts.

For me I think one problem with that idea above is the "super-conscience" may be more thought disguised or imagined as something else. Does activation of it involve more focusing of the attention in thought?

I think of mindfulness as the practice of learning to take the attention off of thought or the mind. So to me, it's not a matter of thought being right or wrong. I think that's not the purpose of mindfulness. To me the purpose is learning we have the option in any given moment to transcend thought and thinking. In other words, place our attention elsewhere. On the senses for example or the world as it is divorced from our self centered thought based interpretations of it.

This is a good link if one wants to know the science behind it:

https://mpfi.org/how-does-mindfulnes...BoCdPQQAvD_BwE

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think of mindfulness as the practice of learning to take the attention off of thought or the mind

Not according to Buddhist teachings, I'm not sure about other teachings from other sources.... You are actually paying attention purposely on thoughts...

"Mindfulness (Sati) sees things as they really are. It adds nothing to perception and it subtracts nothing. It distorts nothing. It is bare attention and just looks at whatever comes up"

You can't see 'whatever comes up' if your mind is not on the thoughts as they come up.

[sky]

Thich Nhat Hanh once wrote "when washing the dishes one should only be washing the dishes " , which means that while washing the dishes one should be completely 'aware' that one is washing the dishes. The fact that I am standing here washing these bowls is a wondrous reality. I'm being completely myself" Simplicity.....

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

You are actually paying attention purposely on thoughts...

I don't have any thoughts a lot of the time so that method would not work for me. I pay attention purposely to what is not thought related. The now as it is without mind or thought interpreting it. But to each their own medicine right. No method is best for everyone.