Parents Without Retirement Savings

[TheTraveler]

Hi there everyone, guess I'm looking for a place to put my thoughts.

I will do my best to keep this short, but first some backstory.

Basically my family has had a difficult life. On mom's side her father got ill which resulted in her family becoming very poor and her having to look after the younger siblings while her mother worked.

Fathers side they were very wealthy but my dads father was abusively strict. My dad then went to the military where he fought in the war of Rhodesia and came back with a lot of trauma from that.

Mom and dad met, had kids etc. Roughly 20 years ago my brother was killed in a robbery when people broke into our house (I was 10 at that time). We then left that town and moved away to a small town on the coast and there we grew up.

From an early age and throughout my childhood leading up until just recently I have suffered from massive depression (im 27 now). An event in late 2015 alleviated this to a great deal (some of you that read the more metaphysical sections of this forum might have come across some of my threads). I am still a little stuck but not as much as I was.

When my younger sister was 16 she was diagnosed with Scoliosis and soon after had her entire spine fused so that she can no longer bend her back. She is in pain everyday but some days its just a but more than others (shes 24 now).



So getting to the main subject of this thread:

My parents dont have money put away for retirement, my dad is visibly exhausted and needs to retire, my mom doesnt work and hasnt for a few years. Myself and all my siblings work, we have since we were in high school. My first job was at a grocery store when I was 14, I worked in all the holidays to earn money for things I wanted. I am still living with the folks and myself and my sibling pay rent so its not like we are leeching.

I have this dream of building an expedition truck and living in it full time, I would like to live where ever my heart takes me I guess and so Im in the process of saving up. What is making me sad and frustrated is that when myself and the siblings leave, my folks will not be able to live independently as they have no finances. Now I obviously would never leave them to struggle or become homeless. Even when I do leave one day soon, I will need to send them money every month which makes things difficult for me and the things I wish to do. what if something happens to my truck and I need to rent for a bit OR what about my siblings who will most certainly be renting and still have to send money to my folks?

I havent even begun to live my life and I feel so angry and frustrated with this. Like I said, I would never just leave my parents or let my siblings deal with this financially, but that doesnt change how I feel.


Gosh im so tired, I dont even think I have the energy to follow my dream.

[Brucely]

When you and siblings move out i would suggest they sell their house and just rent from then on.

[Native spirit]

Life can be very cruel and very difficult for some people. When that happens everyone in the family suffers. its not an easy issue to get over. can they not move to a smaller place? which would be less expensive for them
what you need to do is to sit down as a family and tell them what you are thinking, once you say it to them that would be a lighter Load for you to carry
i'm not sure but don't they get some state assistance I live in the uk and i know here if you work all your life you are worse off. than the people that rely on the state. im retired not through age but illness my kids still live at home 4 of them. one has moved out. im a widow so its not easy for me either. so i can empathise with you
Namaste

[TheTraveler]

thank you Native Spirit for your reply and sharing some of your story with me. I wish you joy and peace.

[linen53]

Here in the United States we have retirement at 65 and Social Security and Medicare for the rest of our lives.

[TheTraveler]

Originally Posted by linen53

Here in the United States we have retirement at 65 and Social Security and Medicare for the rest of our lives.

That sounds really nice, we also have something like that here in South Africa but the monthly pension given by the government is around $100. It's pretty terrible. I hope your system there in the US is a bit better.

[linen53]

$100 here wouldn't be enough to get by on. What they give us on Social Security isn't enough to survive on and it a lot more than what your government gives.

Can you look into some kind of assistance. Maybe housing based on how much income you have? Charity programs that might have been created just to help people like your parents get by.

[Native spirit]

In the uk retirement is 67 and they are trying to raise it to 70.the pension here isn't very good.im not sure how much it is because I'm to young to get it.people over 70 get free TV Licence fee paid by the government they are trying to stop that.
they say we are a rich country I don't know where, there is a big North South devide here in Wales.the south gets more of the money.


Namaste

[Winter Song]

Okay, my responses may come off as a bit rude at first glance, but bear with me:

Originally Posted by TheTraveler

Hi there everyone, guess I'm looking for a place to put my thoughts.

I will do my best to keep this short, but first some backstory.

Basically my family has had a difficult life.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

On mom's side her father got ill which resulted in her family becoming very poor and her having to look after the younger siblings while her mother worked.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

Fathers side they were very wealthy but my dads father was abusively strict.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

My dad then went to the military where he fought in the war of Rhodesia and came back with a lot of trauma from that.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

Mom and dad met, had kids etc. Roughly 20 years ago my brother was killed in a robbery when people broke into our house (I was 10 at that time). We then left that town and moved away to a small town on the coast and there we grew up.

I'm genuinely sorry about your brother; that must have been an excruciating loss for your family.

But it's not your doing or your fault that somebody chose to break into your family's home and murder your brother. It's not your doing or your fault that you're alive and he's not. It's not your duty as the younger son to make up for that loss. And while it's understandable why they did so, it's not your doing or your fault that your parents elected to pick up and move somewhere else, possibly putting themselves at a financial disadvantage to do so.

From an early age and throughout my childhood leading up until just recently I have suffered from massive depression (im 27 now). An event in late 2015 alleviated this to a great deal (some of you that read the more metaphysical sections of this forum might have come across some of my threads). I am still a little stuck but not as much as I was.

Good! I'm happy for you. Depression's a terrible thing.

When my younger sister was 16 she was diagnosed with Scoliosis and soon after had her entire spine fused so that she can no longer bend her back. She is in pain everyday but some days its just a but more than others (shes 24 now).

Back to being a broken record: None of which is your doing, or your fault.

So getting to the main subject of this thread:

My parents dont have money put away for retirement,

Okay. And why not? Both of them have been aware that they would one day want to (or need to) retire, and had the chances to plan and put away money accordingly. So why didn't they? They've had roughly 40 years to accumulate at least something, yet they made decision after decision that has led them to having nothing.

Your father came from a wealthy family; what happened to that? Was he completely disinherited? He was in the military, and fought in Rhodesia; are there no forms of assistance for veterans that he might be eligible for? Do they not have old-age pensions in your country? If not, and he knew there would be no support forthcoming in his old age, then why did he and your mother do nothing to ensure they could take care of themselves in their old age?

my dad is visibly exhausted and needs to retire,

He may want to retire, but you seem to have this idea that he can do so by riding on your back, by keeping you tied down and obligated, and that if you choose not to take on that obligation you're a horrible person.

"Oh, he's had it so hard..." Well, so have you! You suffered from terrible depression and your brother was murdered in your own home! On top of that, you've got parents who seem to have done a very good job of instilling in you a sense of guilt because they had it so hard when they were young, putting their burdens on you (else you wouldn't have recounted all of that old family history, which does not explain why they haven't saved for retirement).

That's horrible stuff for a kid to have to deal with, and yet you seem to have turned out well, and don't expect others to burden themselves on your behalf. Yet you feel bad because you have an eminently reasonable resistance to being burdened by people who should be taking care of themselves.

my mom doesnt work and hasnt for a few years.

WELL WHY NOT? They have nothing saved for retirement; they're facing penury if your father retires or loses his job; why does she not have at least a part-time job? They need her income; right now, as a result of the decisions they have made, they do not have the luxury of either him retiring or her staying at home.

Myself and all my siblings work, we have since we were in high school. My first job was at a grocery store when I was 14, I worked in all the holidays to earn money for things I wanted. I am still living with the folks and myself and my sibling pay rent so its not like we are leeching.

You mentioned having been severely depressed through childhood and until only three years ago, yet you still went out and got jobs and worked, and you're still working and paying your own way in life. You've clearly got a good work ethic; you're not lazy or a "leech."

Your dad still has an income from his work, and your parents are also receiving rent from you and your sibling. But where is that money going, if they're not putting anything away, knowing they desperately need to?

Do you realize that their predicament is neither your doing or your fault? This is what they should have been thinking about and taking care of all along, precisely so their children could go start their own lives without being tied down by the obligation to financially support them.

I have this dream of building an expedition truck and living in it full time, I would like to live where ever my heart takes me I guess and so Im in the process of saving up.

GO DO THAT. Do it. Just do it. Do it do it do it do it do it, LOL. That sounds like an amazing idea, and if you were my kid, I'd tell you to go, and text me pics from everywhere. I'd be excited for you, and all the adventures you're going to have.

Go live the life you are called to lead, because it is your life, not your parents'. Do not let yourself be dragged down by guilt into sacrificing your youth, and all the possibilities that represents, to somebody who has decided it's okay to burden you with their failures. Trust me; I speak from experience on this, and if I could have got up the nerve to say "NO" to others' guilt-driven demands more often, my life before age 34 would have been a hell of a lot easier.

What is making me sad and frustrated is that when myself and the siblings leave, my folks will not be able to live independently as they have no finances.

This is not your doing. This is not your fault.

Here's the thing: when they have no option but to take care of themselves, they will find a way to do it.

They may have to move into a smaller home. They may both have to work, at least part-time. It's likely that this state of affairs isn't going to be what they would have wanted for themselves, and they may deeply resent that things are the way they are. That, however, is the outcome of their decisions, and it is not your fault, any more than all of the hardships and heartbreak you have recounted are.

Now I obviously would never leave them to struggle or become homeless. Even when I do leave one day soon, I will need to send them money every month which makes things difficult for me and the things I wish to do. what if something happens to my truck and I need to rent for a bit OR what about my siblings who will most certainly be renting and still have to send money to my folks?

In your 20s and 30s, you're supposed to be out establishing yourself in the world. A lot of people decide they want to start families during this period, or start a business, or maybe buy a home, and maybe you will too, eventually. For now, you want to be free to roam.

And I'm glad you've thought of this: How are you supposed to do any of that, when your income is being siphoned off by dependent parents?

How are you supposed to start saving for your own eventual retirement, when you are financing theirs, to your own detriment?

This is why the responsibility to be ready to retire falls upon the parents (at least in Westernized societies), not their children. They not only haven't done that, but they've instilled it in you that their survival will depend upon your sacrifice of your own well-being. Forget your dreams, your future, your own security; they have placed their lives in your hands and if you fail to accept that, you're a terrible person...

Only you're not. That you've accepted all of this guilt tells me you're not, because bad people wouldn't care.

I doubt they're bad people, either; they've been dealt some difficult hands, never quite got over them, made a long chain of bad decisions, and now they're tired, worn-out, and afraid because they don't know what the future will hold and doubt their own abilities to navigate it. Having to reduce their expenses, move to a small place, economize in new ways, and keep working when they'd rather not may seem humiliating to them; maybe they had higher expectations for their retirement years. But these are things they are going to have to do, because allowing yourself to be financially crippled by being a primary and regular source of support will have devastating long-term effects on your life.

I havent even begun to live my life and I feel so angry and frustrated with this. Like I said, I would never just leave my parents or let my siblings deal with this financially, but that doesnt change how I feel.

Your parents are adults, not helpless children. They have been making adult decisions for a very long time, and they are still perfectly capable of making them.

The most adult decision they could possibly make in these circumstances is to not live their lives at your expense, and not load you down with a burden that was never yours to carry in the first place.

They may have to be pushed to the realization that they have to make things work the best they possibly can with what they've got, without depending upon you. They can't keep living as they have, at the same standard. They need to make some tough decisions so they can create a new way of living that they can afford, even if it's not the one they would have wanted. And again, that they have put themselves in this position is not your doing or your fault.

Gosh im so tired, I dont even think I have the energy to follow my dream.

NO NO NO! Go! Follow your dream! But I would strongly recommend doing it before your father retires, so they will at least have money coming in while they adjust to life without you as a source of income. That's probably not going to be an easy adjustment for them, but they are adults, capable of making decisions on their own behalf, and believe me, they will find a way to manage.

That said, there will come a time when they will likely need significant financial support from you, when they are both too old and broken-down to manage for themselves any more. Trust me, if you take what you would have sent them every month, and save and invest it, you'll be in a far better position to help them when that time comes. But if you've spent all of that time before that scrounging and scraping just to get by because you've taken on the burden of supporting your parents, you're not likely to be in a position to do much of anything. And after they're gone, and you're older and tireder and worn out from scrounging and scraping, and looking at your own retirement with no savings, what will you do then? Who is going to pay for your old age?

[TheTraveler]

Originally Posted by Winter Song

Okay, my responses may come off as a bit rude at first glance, but bear with me:

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

None of which is your doing, or your fault.

I'm genuinely sorry about your brother; that must have been an excruciating loss for your family.

But it's not your doing or your fault that somebody chose to break into your family's home and murder your brother. It's not your doing or your fault that you're alive and he's not. It's not your duty as the younger son to make up for that loss. And while it's understandable why they did so, it's not your doing or your fault that your parents elected to pick up and move somewhere else, possibly putting themselves at a financial disadvantage to do so.

Good! I'm happy for you. Depression's a terrible thing.

Back to being a broken record: None of which is your doing, or your fault.

Okay. And why not? Both of them have been aware that they would one day want to (or need to) retire, and had the chances to plan and put away money accordingly. So why didn't they? They've had roughly 40 years to accumulate at least something, yet they made decision after decision that has led them to having nothing.

Your father came from a wealthy family; what happened to that? Was he completely disinherited? He was in the military, and fought in Rhodesia; are there no forms of assistance for veterans that he might be eligible for? Do they not have old-age pensions in your country? If not, and he knew there would be no support forthcoming in his old age, then why did he and your mother do nothing to ensure they could take care of themselves in their old age?

He may want to retire, but you seem to have this idea that he can do so by riding on your back, by keeping you tied down and obligated, and that if you choose not to take on that obligation you're a horrible person.

"Oh, he's had it so hard..." Well, so have you! You suffered from terrible depression and your brother was murdered in your own home! On top of that, you've got parents who seem to have done a very good job of instilling in you a sense of guilt because they had it so hard when they were young, putting their burdens on you (else you wouldn't have recounted all of that old family history, which does not explain why they haven't saved for retirement).

That's horrible stuff for a kid to have to deal with, and yet you seem to have turned out well, and don't expect others to burden themselves on your behalf. Yet you feel bad because you have an eminently reasonable resistance to being burdened by people who should be taking care of themselves.

WELL WHY NOT? They have nothing saved for retirement; they're facing penury if your father retires or loses his job; why does she not have at least a part-time job? They need her income; right now, as a result of the decisions they have made, they do not have the luxury of either him retiring or her staying at home.

You mentioned having been severely depressed through childhood and until only three years ago, yet you still went out and got jobs and worked, and you're still working and paying your own way in life. You've clearly got a good work ethic; you're not lazy or a "leech."

Your dad still has an income from his work, and your parents are also receiving rent from you and your sibling. But where is that money going, if they're not putting anything away, knowing they desperately need to?

Do you realize that their predicament is neither your doing or your fault? This is what they should have been thinking about and taking care of all along, precisely so their children could go start their own lives without being tied down by the obligation to financially support them.

GO DO THAT. Do it. Just do it. Do it do it do it do it do it, LOL. That sounds like an amazing idea, and if you were my kid, I'd tell you to go, and text me pics from everywhere. I'd be excited for you, and all the adventures you're going to have.

Go live the life you are called to lead, because it is your life, not your parents'. Do not let yourself be dragged down by guilt into sacrificing your youth, and all the possibilities that represents, to somebody who has decided it's okay to burden you with their failures. Trust me; I speak from experience on this, and if I could have got up the nerve to say "NO" to others' guilt-driven demands more often, my life before age 34 would have been a hell of a lot easier.

This is not your doing. This is not your fault.

Here's the thing: when they have no option but to take care of themselves, they will find a way to do it.

They may have to move into a smaller home. They may both have to work, at least part-time. It's likely that this state of affairs isn't going to be what they would have wanted for themselves, and they may deeply resent that things are the way they are. That, however, is the outcome of their decisions, and it is not your fault, any more than all of the hardships and heartbreak you have recounted are.

In your 20s and 30s, you're supposed to be out establishing yourself in the world. A lot of people decide they want to start families during this period, or start a business, or maybe buy a home, and maybe you will too, eventually. For now, you want to be free to roam.

And I'm glad you've thought of this: How are you supposed to do any of that, when your income is being siphoned off by dependent parents?

How are you supposed to start saving for your own eventual retirement, when you are financing theirs, to your own detriment?

This is why the responsibility to be ready to retire falls upon the parents (at least in Westernized societies), not their children. They not only haven't done that, but they've instilled it in you that their survival will depend upon your sacrifice of your own well-being. Forget your dreams, your future, your own security; they have placed their lives in your hands and if you fail to accept that, you're a terrible person...

Only you're not. That you've accepted all of this guilt tells me you're not, because bad people wouldn't care.

I doubt they're bad people, either; they've been dealt some difficult hands, never quite got over them, made a long chain of bad decisions, and now they're tired, worn-out, and afraid because they don't know what the future will hold and doubt their own abilities to navigate it. Having to reduce their expenses, move to a small place, economize in new ways, and keep working when they'd rather not may seem humiliating to them; maybe they had higher expectations for their retirement years. But these are things they are going to have to do, because allowing yourself to be financially crippled by being a primary and regular source of support will have devastating long-term effects on your life.

Your parents are adults, not helpless children. They have been making adult decisions for a very long time, and they are still perfectly capable of making them.

The most adult decision they could possibly make in these circumstances is to not live their lives at your expense, and not load you down with a burden that was never yours to carry in the first place.

They may have to be pushed to the realization that they have to make things work the best they possibly can with what they've got, without depending upon you. They can't keep living as they have, at the same standard. They need to make some tough decisions so they can create a new way of living that they can afford, even if it's not the one they would have wanted. And again, that they have put themselves in this position is not your doing or your fault.


NO NO NO! Go! Follow your dream! But I would strongly recommend doing it before your father retires, so they will at least have money coming in while they adjust to life without you as a source of income. That's probably not going to be an easy adjustment for them, but they are adults, capable of making decisions on their own behalf, and believe me, they will find a way to manage.

That said, there will come a time when they will likely need significant financial support from you, when they are both too old and broken-down to manage for themselves any more. Trust me, if you take what you would have sent them every month, and save and invest it, you'll be in a far better position to help them when that time comes. But if you've spent all of that time before that scrounging and scraping just to get by because you've taken on the burden of supporting your parents, you're not likely to be in a position to do much of anything. And after they're gone, and you're older and tireder and worn out from scrounging and scraping, and looking at your own retirement with no savings, what will you do then? Who is going to pay for your old age?

You perspective doesnt come across as rude at all, its everything that I am feeling and thinking. Thank you Winter Song for taking the time to respond to my post, I feel a lot better. I also spoke to my sister about this about two days ago and she has been feeling the exact same way. She's stressing cause she has a college loan to pay off and she would like to eventually get a car and also move out. So I'm relieved I'm not the only one thinking about this.

Thank you again for your perspective