Dealing (or not) with 'problematic' persons

[blossomingtree]

Sorry, but I think it's laughable when people use Jesus as an example of 'tough love'. Jesus was "ascended" - if so, his being is therefore different from an ordinary person. I would guess he is Love personified, inner silence, anger-less (no anger anymore in his being) and lives primarily through Spirit.

To imitate his outward words and believe one is acting like Jesus is a bit of a stretch - and actually not true - unless one is also "inner" like Jesus IMO.

BT

[happy soul]

BT,

Maybe I shouldn't have used the idea of 'tough love'.

Jesus was probably far more clear about the nature of love than most people. Perhaps he FULLY 'knew what love is'.

And I think that the appropriate form one's love should take changes as one becomes more clear as to what love is.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by happy soul

BT,

Maybe I shouldn't have used the idea of 'tough love'.

Jesus was probably far more clear about the nature of love than most people. Perhaps he FULLY 'knew what love is'.

And I think that the appropriate form one's love should take changes as one becomes more clear as to what love is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYGzZ0tQpA

[happy soul]

One of my favorite songs. And bands.

My favorite 'Love' song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0cRfQKcVCM

Originally Posted by davidsun

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Which I take to mean that he advocated 'embracing' someone as a 'brother' only if he acknowledged and repented 'wrongdoing', and to otherwise reject him socially.


I hope my foregoing statements pertaining to Jesus as well as what's said in the transcript of Dr. Newton's session helps readers understand how someone such as me might logically arrive at my position and maintain my attitude regarding such matters.

-

davidsun,

I have a very different interpretation of the cited scripture. For understanding refer to Matthew 23:4(KJV)......Jesus speaking of the Pharisees....."For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move with one of their fingers". My take: the Pharisees, in their judgementalism, observe sin and lay guilt on others without any hint or action of forgiveness on their part. To forgive is to loose the binds. Their failure to forgive others on earth prevents God from forgiving them for their sins. This is what is maddening to Jesus......people who claim authority are essentially abusing their authority and thus can only be seen as hypocrites. In a sense, their failure to forgive is a greater sin than the sins of the ones they are condemning. The others sin in ignorance but the Phairsees(experts in law and understanding) have no such excuse.

In regards to Dr. Newton and especially the respondent identified only as "subject" we have no substantiation of credentials to bestow any credibility to their dialogue.

It can certainly be noticed that this entire thread demonstrates vividly what I had earlier posted. That to resist others is to give power to them and additionally to keep persistently attempting to change one's mind will only serve to motivate them to become more deeply entrenched in whatever position they choose to espouse.

Originally Posted by Molearner

...It can certainly be noticed that this entire thread demonstrates vividly what I had earlier posted. That to resist others is to give power to them and additionally to keep persistently attempting to change one's mind will only serve to motivate them to become more deeply entrenched in whatever position they choose to espouse.

For me, the 'original sin' is the persistent confusion of one's POV for reality - the rigid belief that one's view in a way defines the entire universe, the "I am right and everybody else is wrong' syndrome. It is the root of judgmentalism and lack of empathy and compassion.

It is interesting to me that seemingly built into the very fabric of the universe is a mechanism that encourages cooperation and perceptual opening. It's at least a partial mechansim of Karma, another signpost on the road to enlightenment, IMO.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by happy soul

BT,

Maybe I shouldn't have used the idea of 'tough love'.

Jesus was probably far more clear about the nature of love than most people. Perhaps he FULLY 'knew what love is'.

And I think that the appropriate form one's love should take changes as one becomes more clear as to what love is.

No problems, happy soul, I didn't intend to target you in that message - it was late and I was sloppy. I've just seen many instances where people say "I'm just showing you tough love" and cite Saints or Adepts, but I think that is a fundamental difference. i.e. if these people are "Ascended Masters" (to use a term I learnt on this forum ) then inwardly they are actually different.

They are of course like us, but there are differences: inner silence, acquiescence/absence of greed/anger and the like (unlike repression or "trying to do the right thing despite anger" etc.), compassionate, inner knowing etc.

Therefore, to merely imitate their outward action is not quite hitting the mark, in my opinion.

Not saying that we can't be firm of course, or that we can't exercise our judgement; just stating this perspective from the context of "Well Jesus/Buddha/Saint etc. did that"...

I just wanted to make that point, sorry again it was not just directed at you, it's a feeling I just wanted to express

<<And I think that the appropriate form one's love should take changes as one becomes more clear as to what love is.>>

I agree - I think the more important priority is to clarify this in oneself (through meditation, prayer, inquiry, reflection, guidance and the like) - then these issues become clearer (in a way)

Thank you, happy soul!

BT

[blossomingtree]

Some Hafiz

From the Large Jug, Drink

From the large jug, drink the wine of Unity,
So that from your heart you can wash away the futility of life's grief.

But like this large jug, still keep the heart expansive.
Why would you want to keep the heart captive, like an unopened bottle
of wine?

With your mouth full of wine, you are selfless
And will never boast of your own abilities again.

Be like the humble stone at your feet rather than striving to be like a
Sublime cloud: the more you mix colors of deceit, the more colorless
your ragged wet coat will get.

Connect the heart to the wine, so that it has body,
Then cut off the neck of hypocrisy and piety of this new man.

Be like Hafiz: Get up and make an effort. Don't lie around like a bum.
He who throws himself at the Beloved's feet is like a workhorse and will
be rewarded with boundless pastures and eternal rest.

From: Drunk on the Wine of the Beloved
Translated by Thomas Rain Crowe

[blossomingtree]

First of all, I'd like to say, even though I have been lazy and have not read this full thread thank you to all contributors on this that I am now reading: davidsun, Molearner, Kioma, Shivani Devi, happy soul.

I am not very educated in Christian scriptures so it is very interesting for me to read these discussions, and learn your perspectives on it too.

Thank you everyone!

BT