My understanding of Dukka and suffering

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by Elohim

Meditate by observing your breath, when you are with the breath , the mind becomes empty

I'm not sure that would result in an empty mind since you are thinking about observing the breath. Then also you are thinking about an empty mind. Now if you could drop these as well perhaps you would be closer to an empty mind.

[Ground]

'dukkha' refers to the experience of tension and/or agitation and/or stress and/or unease concomitant with ordinary mind.

Originally Posted by Elohim

The real teaching of GAUTAMA the Buddha is observe your breath and know yourself, like all religions "Message is lost" even here .

he is the one to give the world the beauty of ANAPANASATI

Meditate by observing your breath, when you are with the breath , the mind becomes empty

No money involved
Google Pyramid Meditation , it just observing your Breath

Though the ananpanasati is teaching mindfulness of breathing as one of the 3 trainings. It focuses on concentration samatha.

Originally Posted by satipatanna

"Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, brings the four frames of reference to their culmination. The four frames of reference, when developed & pursued, bring the seven factors for awakening to their culmination. The seven factors for awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to their culmination.

He also designated the sattipatana sutta as a direct path, which encompasses the foundations of mindfulness. In my understanding that focuses moreon insight vipassana

Originally Posted by satipatanna

"This is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding — in other words, the four frames of reference. Which four?

So there's that.

With love
Eelco

Originally Posted by RUTH DENISON

"Dukkha is the pain of wanting things to be different, other than they are."

With Love
Eelco

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Originally Posted by RUTH DENISON
"Dukkha is the pain of wanting things to be different, other than they are."

I wonder if it would be more accurate to say, Dukkha is identifying with the thought one wants things to be different. Saying the wanting or the thought is the cause of the suffering is giving too much power to thought I think. In the average person, thought does have this power but it's because we give thought this power through our ignorance of what and who we are.

In other words, one doesn't have to work with or fix their thoughts. Thought can want things to be different all it wants. The key is to no longer identify with ones thoughts. To have some separation there between what you know yourself to be and thought. To be more aware and awake in the moment, to be aware when thought captures your attention, when thought hypnotizes you to focus on it as reality, aware like a hawk scanning the ground for any small movement that might be a mouse. Like a full up and not hungry hawk, flying free unfettered through the sky, alert and awake, aware of the movement on the ground, but untouched by it.

yes. craving is the cause of suffering/dhukka.

What else is craving than identifying with the thought or feeling that you want some things to be different than they are.

With Love
Eelco

[running]

Originally Posted by shivatar

dukka doesn't mean suffering in the physical way. When we work hard and our body hurts, that is physical suffering. Dukka is existential suffering. When we want something that cannot be had, that is dukka. If we want to see our self as brad pitt but the mirror is gary busey, that is dukka, a difference between expectation and reality.

Everything in this world is Dukka because we want to understand our self, we want enlightenment, and nothing in this world will show us that directly. There are many spiritual practices to help us understand our self and let go of our attachments to the world but thats as close as we get. If there was such a sure-fire method for enlightenment (experiential knowledge of self) then we'd all know about it and we'd have a lot of enlightened people!

Dukka essentially means nothing in this world can satisfy us in the lasting way. Everything that we crave in the world will only give us attachment and ego, it will give us a roller coaster of emotion but it won't give us a lasting high.

Life is dukka, means that life is not what it seems. If we did everything we wanted to in life it still wouldn't satisfy in the long and lasting way like enlightenment would. This is because enlightenment is an internal and silent realization, it can be aided by the world but it doesn't come from the world.

bliss of the self is more enjoyable than through typical cause and effect. but in action can also an extension of bliss. so you can do nothing and enjoy bliss. or be busy and enjoy bliss. its inside and outside.

there is a lot of information on its simplicity. all it is physically is the nervous system being alive with shakti(current). drowning the body in joy and silence effortlessly, and continiously.

humans are highly programmed to have some kinda desire to make a complicated mess out of things. for the few that dont wish that. there are simple practices that can be done to bring someone towards bliss consciousness. so some people travel that route. and some of them find it.

[eputkonen]

Dukkha is often translated as suffering, but could also mean discontentment or dissatisfaction.

Suffering is a mentally created fiction. Like when someone says "don't look or it will hurt more." The hurting before you look is pain caused by nerves in the body. The hurting more after you look is suffering caused by the mind.

Suffering includes problems, anxieties/worry, guilt, etc. All mental fictions that we subject ourselves to. But dukkha is also discontentment...we just are not satisfied with ourselves or the world.

So enlightenment is seeing through the illusions of the mind...which cause dukkha. After enlightenment...there is a cessation of dukkha. You are content. You no longer suffer (no more problems, worries/anxieties, guilt, etc.).

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Ground

'dukkha' refers to the experience of tension and/or agitation and/or stress and/or unease concomitant with ordinary mind.

I see that the expression 'ordinary mind' may entail the thought of there being the necessity to effortfully overcome ordiinary mind.
But no. All that is neccessary is relaxation. Imagine the top of a mountaiin you wanted to reach which offers a good view. you are already there! Relax and enjoy the view!

But then you may see how my view deviates from the view expounded in the pali kanon. I leave it up to you to reconcile my view wiith that expounded in the pali kanon or to fall into the trap of no return.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Ground

I see that the expression 'ordinary mind' may entail the thought of there being the necessity to effortfully overcome ordiinary mind.
But no. All that is neccessary is relaxation. Imagine the top of a mountain you wanted to reach which offers a good view. you are already there! Relax and enjoy the view!

But then ... this of course does not represent truth since it is just a linguistic expression. It may however be an appropriate expression if you are already on top of a mountain and are already enjoying the view. But then ... being on top of a mountain or not is irrelevant since whether on top of a mountain or down in deepest valley does not make a difference since there is no recollection when no-one is nowhere.

The issue of release from ordinary mind and dukkha can be nicely put with a koan (modified case 5 of the Mumonkan):

"Release from ordinary mind and dukkha is like the solution of this: a man is hanging by his teeth in a tree over a precipice. His hands grasp no branch, his feet rest on no limb, and under the tree another man asks him, 'How do I overcome ordinary mind and dukkha?' If the man in the tree does not answer, he misses the question, and if he answers, he falls and loses his life. Now what shall he do?"

Find the solution and that'll be it.