Please ask me , I will learn from it

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by running

Do you remember what started this conversation about joy and pain? I was talking about going beyond it into constant intoxication/bliss. That can be felt through all things. Doesn't take away the senses but makes one always feel good.

You explained how pain and joy are the same. Since then you been going on and on about knowledge about it.

Perhaps there is so much differences on our views , perhaps there is lots of similarities that seems different . You said about " going beyond into constant intoxication / bliss " ...as what I perhaps explained to you is so call "emptiness"........In my current view , Buddhism is a natural process leading to freedom of all emotion into emptiness back into nothingness ...is perhaps " emptiness" is what you trying to explain to me ...but if that so , do you think we could explained something " that is nothing to descriped "?.....

If that emotion or so call senses makes you feel good ...then it perhaps is resulted from emotion , or is your own emotion ....perhaps Buddhism is the process that will lead you into realizing such emotion .......into freedom of it not gaining it .I had try my best to explain / share my views but if you need further explaination , please ask .


Now your going on about beyond knowledge. Its like a philosophy or religion full of hot air. So far you have offered nothing but a lot of talk. Like a battlefield of words. Its really strange.


Perhaps if you read your writing again , you could learn more of your emotion ...you had made accusation on my view being a form of religion and I had explain my reason ......I never trying to offer anything to you and if you had learned anything , it never from my desire perhaps is your realization .......in my current view of Buddhism , anything that happens , in our daily lifes regardless what we do , what we observed , what we notice it will be part of our process in self realization regardless we accept it or create emotion to deny or object it ...it will be a sand on the buildiing structure ........so it is impossible for anything or anyone " offering nothing " regardless what is your emotion or perseption .........it will be part of yourself and part of myself ...is never a choice , is natural and this is Buddhism . Is something we cant control ......

I can pretty much guarantee you will go on with a bunch of words about nothing again. What I offered has something standing behind it. It can be felt and described. It makes sense to anyone whom isn't in denial about joy. How joy is preferred over pain. How it would be nice to feel joy in all conditions of life. Not removing the senses but blanketing them and ones life with a joy full feeling.

Perhaps Buddhism is your realization on your desire to choose for a choice ......perhaps there will never be a joy if one still attached to emotion of pain .......pain will always be a shadows in joy ...one will always suffer of having the thought of pain in joy............if there still is a choice , there will be suffering .........Buddhism perhaps is realization beyond having to choose , is realization on emotion that will free one from having emotion to choose .

In my current view of Buddhism ....as we progress we will realized our emotion and awaken to Buddhism , this process will be faster / easier /lighter / less burden .......so as we progress , we will realized that we are same as anything or anyone that nothing is belong to us nor material , or family or "own body" is never owned by us ..........there is never was , never is any " special emotion" for anything or anyone .......and as we progress further , we will realized there is no other ...we are always alone , in journey of our choice , our will in our own world ..........and as we progress further , our emotion , fear , desire , greed , love etc will be reduced / decreased ...this will moves us into a condition of " Less self" , less burden of having to carry tons of rubbish behind our back ...we will realized that all this while , our emotions is actually burden .........and we will be in a condition of less emotion , less love , less desire , less greed , less ego and such condition can be easily "mistaken" as " joy ".....so " joy" in Buddhism is not something you gain or resulted from your emotion , is something you had let go......and the one you let go is the one that we always hold on to , and that is our emotion .........This process of realization on own emotion to me is Buddhism.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by running

Now your going on about beyond knowledge. Its like a philosophy or religion full of hot air. So far you have offered nothing but a lot of talk. Like a battlefield of words. Its really strange.

I can pretty much guarantee you will go on with a bunch of words about nothing again. What I offered has something standing behind it. It can be felt and described. It makes sense to anyone whom isn't in denial about joy. How joy is preferred over pain. How it would be nice to feel joy in all conditions of life. Not removing the senses but blanketing them and ones life with a joy full feeling.

CSEe,

What you don't seem to be hearing is that your answers are all theoretical. While they may or may not be 'correct' they lack any grounding in reality or any substance in experience. One can read all the books, listen to all the teachers, and know all the teachings. However, Buddhism is about actual life. One has to live it, be it, embody it. What is being requested of you is some answers that either include your actual experiences, or show how to apply all this knowledge to real life situations.

As an example, it's easy to recognize that mind chatter is distracting. However, actually dealing with that mind chatter is not so easy. The 'practice' of Buddhism (and other spiritual traditions) is in the handling of 'problematic' situations. Once one is mature in their practice, it is all simple and easy. However, there is little knowledge left to learn and little use for it at that point. One can just live it then. Granted at that point there are other things to learn, but you are not offering them in your answers either.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by wstein

CSEe,

What you don't seem to be hearing is that your answers are all theoretical. While they may or may not be 'correct' they lack any grounding in reality or any substance in experience. One can read all the books, listen to all the teachers, and know all the teachings. However, Buddhism is about actual life. One has to live it, be it, embody it. What is being requested of you is some answers that either include your actual experiences, or show how to apply all this knowledge to real life situations.


Perhaps our version of Buddhism is of great differences ......and I happy of this as I could learn even more .....in my current understanding , Buddhism is not something that I could tell you what it is , or experiences that I could confidently say it is something so call " truth " ........why ? To me simply because it is all about realization of own emotion ....so it is not something that I could offer to you or something that I could hold on to ...it is something that "not with me" ......so how could it to give something that I never hold on ? ............In my current view , nothing is referral to Buddhism nor books , talks even words directly from Siddharta himself .......so one could only learn Buddhism but Buddhism is impossible to be taught ........so what I have will be something I will "forget".......not something that I plan to give you .........and the more I continue to debate / learn / discover ...the lesser emotion with me .......perhaps Buddhism is not about " actual" living ..because perhaps there is nothing to compare or to claim as false .....Buddhism is all , in all , as all....nothing is outside of Buddhism..that is my current understanding ...........

As an example, it's easy to recognize that mind chatter is distracting. However, actually dealing with that mind chatter is not so easy. The 'practice' of Buddhism (and other spiritual traditions) is in the handling of 'problematic' situations. Once one is mature in their practice, it is all simple and easy. However, there is little knowledge left to learn and little use for it at that point. One can just live it then. Granted at that point there are other things to learn, but you are not offering them in your answers either.

Perhaps I should express it again .....I am here to learn and I had said it perhaps thousands of time ...I am here not to teach as I have nothing to offer ....as I currently of the view that Buddhism is impossible to be taught .....

Perhaps in our culture , the more we learn , the more we became experts but perhaps in Buddhism ....the more we progress , the less we will know as there will be less desire to know , less emotion on knowing , less ego to keep any knowledge , less pride to own knowledge , less love to own existence ......

[wstein]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Buddhism is not something that I could tell you what it is

Originally Posted by CSEe

Perhaps I should express it again .....I am here to learn and I had said it perhaps thousands of time ...I am here not to teach as I have nothing to offer ....as I currently of the view that Buddhism is impossible to be taught .....

I have not forgotten. Buddhism like many other spiritual things CAN be taught. However, teaching is not dispensing of information nor a telling others what to do. Perfect teaching is no guarantee of learning. Learning does not require a teacher or an explanation. These are some things that many spiritual teachers seem to forget (or perhaps never knew).

[wstein]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Buddhism is not something that I could tell you what it is , or experiences that I could confidently say it is something so call " truth "

Actually I'm not trying to teach you anything about Buddhism, as I said, you are done with that. I'm not trying to teach you about truth either, the only thing I could possibly do is show you my truth, that will never be your truth (even if it is the same truth).

What I am trying to do is show you where you can learn based on where you are. Perhaps I might even help get you to where your opportunities to learn are.

I'm not attached to you learning anything. Learning is your activity in this, it's up to you.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by CSEe

To me simply because it is all about realization of own emotion ....so it is not something that I could offer to you or something that I could hold on to ...it is something that "not with me" ......so how could it to give something that I never hold on?

One of the points of Buddhism is that there is nothing permanent, thus you can never hold on to it. Trying to hold on to is just causes suffering.

Just because something can no be held on to, does not mean you can't give it. If I speak a kind word to you, I have given something to you. There is nothing left to hold onto after I do so.

This is all an on going process of realization according to you, so why would there be any difficulty with things one can not hold on to?

Why can you not offer your realization of own emotion? Actually that IS in part what people are asking for. What did you realize? How did you recognize it?

[wstein]

Originally Posted by CSEe

To me simply because it is all about realization of own emotion

Isn't it just about realization of self? Surely you are not so simple that emotion is all that is your 'own'.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by wstein

I have not forgotten. Buddhism like many other spiritual things CAN be taught. However, teaching is not dispensing of information nor a telling others what to do. Perfect teaching is no guarantee of learning. Learning does not require a teacher or an explanation. These are some things that many spiritual teachers seem to forget (or perhaps never knew).

Please explain to me how could Buddhism be taught ?

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by wstein

Actually I'm not trying to teach you anything about Buddhism, as I said, you are done with that. I'm not trying to teach you about truth either, the only thing I could possibly do is show you my truth, that will never be your truth (even if it is the same truth).

What I am trying to do is show you where you can learn based on where you are. Perhaps I might even help get you to where your opportunities to learn are.

I'm not attached to you learning anything. Learning is your activity in this, it's up to you.

Yes , that is some teacher trying to tell me ...but what is your "truth "? and how can you realized the "truth" ? In my current understanding , I really cant see if there is any truth or false , right or wrong , good or bad in Buddhism . If there is any happening ...that is Buddhism......

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by wstein

One of the points of Buddhism is that there is nothing permanent, thus you can never hold on to it. Trying to hold on to is just causes suffering.

Just because something can no be held on to, does not mean you can't give it. If I speak a kind word to you, I have given something to you. There is nothing left to hold onto after I do so.

Perhaps that "kind" words that you "given" to me is out of your emotion and in my current understanding , buddhism is a process leading to realization on your emotion ...so if you already accepted the words is being kind as comparison to rude that is still reflection from your knowledge ...yes this is something I accepted in my culture ....but awaken to Buddhism , perhaps by own realization , you will speak on words that reflect your condition on that particular time when you said it ......such words is represent you , your condition not something you plan to say , not something you purposely design to say whether to please me or avoid being rude .......but perhaps as you progress further , you will realized that you could not give anything to others because there is no others except your emotion .....

This is all an on going process of realization according to you, so why would there be any difficulty with things one can not hold on to?

Perhaps in Buddhism as we progress by being awake , the one that we let go is forgotten .................and free of our emotion .


Why can you not offer your realization of own emotion? Actually that IS in part what people are asking for. What did you realize? How did you recognize it?

Realization in my current understanding or even experience is something that is beyond knowledge ........that impossible to described or to explain ......realization of your existence , the cause of own existence , the nature to exist is something that no one could ever teach ...and in short is you realizing you , realizing yourself ............perhaps by being awake , aware , realize , accept and further aware one will realized own emotion .............I can only explain on what I discover -infact I already did but I cant explain about realization ...is something you will experience , not by your desire to know , or your knowledge of practice ...it is natural . Awaken to Buddhism perhaps makes it easier ....