Spiritual growth: the real determinant

[Unseeking Seeker]

In direct experience, would you say that a this or that practice, is a sufficient cause of spiritual growth
without an actual shift of consciousness in thought, word and deed, moment to moment, in lived reality?

What in your view, is the actual determinant?

[Miss Hepburn]

I amended this:

When you feel a peaceful joy you are near the truth. - Rumi
If I could define enlightenment briefly I would say it is 'the quiet acceptance of what is'. -Wayne Dyer

With no shift in consciousness...following a 'practice'?
I guess being kind to all creatures...always. Can't go wrong there!
Also, focusing on the Divine Presence.
Desire must be part of you ...for 'more', spiritually...and then Grace.

[FallingLeaves]

well i think
you can have
a lot of different
'experiences'

and I think
some of them
seem very compelling
and worth going after

but I think
in the end
it comes down to
the physics
of going
one place or another

and getting attached
to any given place
as if it were the 'end place'
you always want to be

is as silly
to me
as many find
in being attached
to your thoughts...

and yet still
many of those places
seem
oh so very compelling...

life is life
to me
you don't really need to be
alwahs going
toward some perfect place
just to be alive

it is always good enough
just where you are.

and yet at the same time
journeying around
can be fun too...

but again
to me
it all comes down to
how attached
you really want to be
to whatever experience
you've decided to call home...

[Starman]

I think the determinant is twofold; first we have to get out of the way. Spiritual growth is automatic, we can speed it up by humbling our ego and quieting our mind, which is another way of saying “move out of the way.”

The second determinant is adaptability, or the skill to go with the flow and adapt to change. While a spiritual practice can nurture inner quiet and stillness, nonetheless, we will still go through changes. But the realization may dawn on us that we go down into the valley only to climb another mountain of consciousness.

Actually, at least in my opinion, spirit does not grow, so the term spiritual growth is a misnomer. We let go of the finite to experience more of our infinite nature. That infinite nature was there even when we were unconscious of it. The process of awakening involves becoming more of what we already are on a greater level.

If there is growth, it is growing into what is, was, and always shall be. But it is not spirit which grows. Nothing is added. I let go and there it is. Its like saying the sun rose this morning, when actually the sun did not rise rather the earth turned and revealed the sun. Same with spiritual growth in my opinion.

[vortex]

i don't think any one has control of consciousness thought, they can dismiss it bit like judgement you will all ways judge but knowing you created the thought or judgment you can change it
if you didn't have theses you would not have freedom of choice

as for practice like Miss Hepburn, Wayne Dyer
acceptance of what is
being open ..... to thoughts extra, people but not gullible
and most of all enjoy being an human playing in all it is to be human

when you know your mind sees an illusion of all that is, built on your beliefs, truths , facts, extra
and in this knowledge you can reprogram your mind and really play here

[Unseeking Seeker]

Speaking from my life experience, looking back, what I see is that, ok, we may meditate a bit here and there for a while, even feel good about it, peaceful and joyous but unless we choose to shift, in as, in moment to moment lived reality, no tangible progress occurs.

In other words, gym-meditation is what it is, a part time activity.

What happened in my case was that sometime around 2017-18 or so, I kind of got exhausted with the futility of flitting from one material goal to another; material meaning doership controlling destiny of myself as an entity and those I cared for. I was in a state of inner conflict, disregarding voice of conscience. The life I was leading was not authentic.

So, I just chose to shift, chose to stop compromising on truth as perceived. This involved immediate financial losses. By grace, holding steady resolve, I did not step back into the lure of the external.

Now, it was only after this choice was exercised by free will* (*is there free will ~ that’s another huge topic in itself, so let’s skip it), that having walked the talk, so to speak, all manner of spiritual awakening began. It never stopped thereafter.

There was no practice I did. All I did was to rekindle childlike innocence in the heart and then stay with it. The universe, masters, God Himself, all assist to enable transmutation of consciousness containerised in this form.

Yes, all aspects of love, gentleness, mindfulness, acceptance, compassion, non-judging etc becomes the attributes of personality, albeit with oscillation, given that we’re in the human experience. All this happens simply by being still, doing nothing, seeking nothing.

As such, I’d say the inner follows the outer, meaning inner spiritual growth depends upon our outer conduct, breath by breath, interacting with life, as it appears.

[Starman]

Wonderful sharing Unseeking Seeker, I can relate to much of what you have shared. I learned how to meditate back in the 1970’s and have been rather regular meditating and having incredible experiences for almost 50-years now. I do not consider myself an authority or expert on what other people are doing but what I am doing works for me.

I feel like there is an interaction between the outer and the inner. When I studied Tarot with an occult school in Los Angels, at the beginning of the 13-year curriculum we were told to get our inner life together and our outer life will follow. This is my experience. These days I go for very long periods of time absolutely quiet inside.

I have noticed that much of what I think presents itself to me in the outside world; to either confirm or deny what I was thinking. I can tell what my day is going to be like by observing what has pushed its way into my head. My intuition works with an occasional thought and sometimes gives me visions for future events as they pertain to me.

I find it easier to work on outside situations from inside of myself. I am safe in inner peace while I work on potentially high risk earthly situations. My inner light protects me, this is my experience, and I am guided by an extremely soft and benevolent presence which I bathe in when I submerge in quiet, still, meditation.

I believe that everyone has to find a path which agrees with their purpose. This is but my path, and I have seen lots of progress over the decades while on this path, but I do not say or intend to say that my path is best for everyone.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Yes, Starman, essentially, whichever way we look at it, what is happening is, is a blurring of boundaries, a melding, if you will, not only recognising but feeling interconnectedness to behold glimmers of oneness.

A meditational orientation or let us simply say, a continuum of quietude, wherein presence is aware, sans thought interference, as a natural state of being and hence effortless, is how I’d describe the present state, in my case, which I must qualify by adding that it is automatic perhaps because the unceasing bliss current fixates attention in silence. Let’s call bliss a natural aid provided by the universe allowing us to have the cake and eat it too!

During meditation or sitting in silence or conversely such emptiness filled with either love or bliss (I call bliss as an octave of love) in fullness, there is no ego or identity although no doubt it is there in subconscious, kind of lurking in the shadows. The ego gets instrumentalised, lower mind too is an instrument, just like any other limb of our body, used when needed, otherwise rested.

Of course each path is different, as you say, depends on how recognition is enabled, layer by layer or maybe suddenly, with the dropping away of thought and employing mind of the heart.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

focusing on the Divine Presence

True for those who have felt divine magnetism and can then so practice the presence, otherwise it is a mental concept. Possibly in early days, we choose to observe the rising and subsiding of thoughts, as abstract objects external to us, which have simply appeared in our sphere of awareness, so assigning no ownership over thoughts, we cease to feed them and in time, they just ebb away altogether.

Emptiness however, is inert and barren. There is no thing there and we are accustomed to a subject-object interaction. Still, if we wait awhile, in my experience, I’d say, the universe hastens to energise our form with magnetism. Here too, we resist because the instinct of self-preservation kicks in. Yet if we continues deeper, the kundalini (or chi or Holy Spirit) suffuses our body along pranic (energy) channels automatically. It is a roller coaster ride!

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

In direct experience, would you say that a this or that practice, is a sufficient cause of spiritual growth
without an actual shift of consciousness in thought, word and deed, moment to moment, in lived reality?

What in your view, is the actual determinant?

I think all life experiences are opportunities to notice you in there, but also too, there are those who have spontaneous awakenings that shift them quite profoundly without effort or seeking.

Perhaps there is a balance reached for some, whereby the door opens most naturally.

I don’t believe shifts happen in any order or way. The way and order often reflects the readiness and balance within perhaps? The choices and meeting points another - Cause and affects.

I was in discussion most naturally with a co worker and the conversation moved into many streams of her life through my curiousity and openness to engage. What ensued was a major shift for her in such a profound way. Five mins prior she wasn’t aware at all. Not only did it bring awareness, she opened to feel, develop a tool and dropped an addiction. According to her, a few days later, she wondered if I realised how huge it was for her. I wasn’t trying to do anything in our connection accept be myself. There was no intent that day.

I guess what I’m highlighting is this is just one potentiality of life creating shifts most naturally to open to what is potentiality within all life.