Bible Contradiction

Originally Posted by 333xforever

I'm going to make this simple and clear, so I want a simple and clear answer. No long paragraphs: I will NOT read them, thanks :)
If you can't explain this simply in a paragraph or less, then don't bother. Because you probably don't know the answer.


Lucifer sinned because he wanted to be higher than God.
Here: Revelation 21:27, it says nothing sinful will ever enter heaven.
Also here: Job 1:6, it says Lucifer(Satan) visited God, so obviously in heaven.

How did Lucifer sin, if sin can't exist in heaven?

Lets go deeper. Where did the sin come from that overtook Lucifer? A higher power of evil?

Rev 21:7 is obviously referring to the installment of Gods appointed king on the throne.( Daniel 7:13-15) This occurred here at rev 6( he received his crown)--the first ride of the white horse( righteous war) = the war in heaven--satan and his angels lost and were kicked out of heaven permanently--Gods kingdom rule began. Then no more sin was allowed--same will be on earth after the second ride of the white horse at Har-mageddon--Gods kingdom takes full control of all creation. No more sin allowed.

[333xforever]

Originally Posted by kjw47

Rev 21:7 is obviously referring to the installment of Gods appointed king on the throne.( Daniel 7:13-15) This occurred here at rev 6( he received his crown)--the first ride of the white horse( righteous war) = the war in heaven--satan and his angels lost and were kicked out of heaven permanently--Gods kingdom rule began. Then no more sin was allowed--same will be on earth after the second ride of the white horse at Har-mageddon--Gods kingdom takes full control of all creation. No more sin allowed.

Why was sin allowed in the first place?

[PeteC-UK]

Ho Folks...


The bible NEVER explains just what sin actually is !! HOW then are we to know if we follow only the bible..????....

Well - as always - we have CHRIST - who spoke a lot of truth that is NOT to be found in the bible...Now,when Christ speaks of "evil" or "sin -they are ALWAYS equated to THIS MORTAL WORLD - and He explains it thus ; sin - is the INDIVIDUAL MORTAL MIND - THIS mind reading writing posts IS SIN.....

Its that simple - sin is the individual mind - its opposite - Grace - is the UNIFIED MIND,for it ALL starts from within the Self,is all ABOUT the mind and SELF AWARENESS as THIS mind here,mortal,joins and becomes THAT mind "there",the Christ...Ergo - as Christ said - we are BORN in sin,with a DIVIDED MIND - and the goal is to fiirst UNIFY this mind within the Self - Kingdom found within - and once tht is acheived,we are then physically able to begin to transcend ths lower world comletly,attain Divine Grace,Presene of the Holy Ghost as it is termed...

Sin - didnt enter into heaven - and the hevens of yahweh and his angels,are NOT the abode of the true Divine Our Father,and are not even our destination at all,once we KNOW Christ and Our Father...TWO SEPERATE REALMS !!!

All this IS according to Christ DIRECTLY....

Tristan;

Sin is a chromosome in every physical entities' DNA.
Once Satan rebelled, the sin chromosome was automatically activated.
The same switch occurred with both Adam and Eve when the Apple of Knowledge event took place.

Ah mate - THINK abiout it - you wil see - that simply is logically impossible....."Satan" is NOT a physical entity - he is an ANGEL we are told,NEVER MORTAL,never had a body made of flesh blood or chromosomes - in short,a SPIRTUAL other worldy being,NOT formed of DNA at all...

Rebellion or not then - there simply is no PHYSICAL MECHANISM in place as you suggest - no chromosone could have been switched on of course,because simply,his form is NOT material dna like your and mine are...

Similary - Adam and Eve - acording to the bible - at the time they "fell" likewise,they did NOT HAVE PHYSICAL BODIES EITHER.....It tells us very clearly - that AFTER they "sin" and are expelled,they REALISE THEY ARE NAKED,and this god then gives them "clothes made of skin" - when we read this in genesis,it becomes very clear,these clothes are NEEDED as they now are starting a NEW existnce entirely ON THE EARTH,banished form "Eden".....Remeber here,they are created ON the Earth,then taken and PLACED inEden - definaelty not mortal then as You and I are...So - before this banishment,there is a clear distinction - they have none,nor need,"clothes of skin"....AFTER the banishment though,this skin becomes ESSENTIAL and is given to ENABLE life on the Earth....Clerly "clothes of skin" equates to a PHYSICAL body...

Again,we see clearly - Adam and Eve - at the time of the "fall" - are most definaelty inhabiting EDEN - a purely SPIRITUAL existance - NOT ON THE EARTH - not PHYSICAL mortal beigs at all....Again then - THEY have no chromsomes as yet,to switch on either,do they..?..

As I say - when CHRIST explains such things - HE NEVER MENTIONS SATAN - or hell - and He says sin and evil are all prodcts of Self ingorance - thus His chief advise is to always,KNOW THY SELF beocme known fully - He tells us to put aside all these PRECONCEPTIONS of truth taught tby others - and to go alone into the secret silence of our our mind - to encounter the TRUE Divine and HIS PRESENCE - HISMIND - directly by the Self,for the Self....Then and only then He said,will such truth be revealed..As always,for those with ears to hear..

[Clear Blue Sky]

Several answers here:

1. Satan and Lucifer are not actually the same person, perhaps.

2. Perhaps revelation is referring to the condition after the return of Christ and final judgment day.

3. https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk

[Tristran]

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

"Satan" is NOT a physical entity - he is an ANGEL we are told,NEVER MORTAL,never had a body made of flesh blood or chromosomes - in short,a SPIRTUAL other worldy being,NOT formed of DNA at all...

So why did the Bible show him as a snake or seraph ? If he was in orb form then the Bible would have said 'spirit' form.

How about now, where every baby that is born is born a sinner. Only when that person is Born Again is sin removed from their body. Hence the sin chromosome is switched off and their name is written back into the Book of Life.

[Shekinah]

The devil does not exist it is a fabrication of Christianity (Abrahamic faiths). Lucifer is not synonymous with the devil. He is the Divinity"light giver" imbuing knowledge and wisdom previously denied mortals. Of course Christians don't like Lucifer.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Tristan;

So why did the Bible show him as a snake or seraph ? If he was in orb form then the Bible would have said 'spirit' form.

He isnt actualy depicted AS a snake though - it is as a DRAGON - and the first referance to this symbol that I know of,is from Christ Himself - understand,the "devil/satan" narrative,is ACTUALLY a twisiting of the CREATION OF YAHWEH as told BY Christ - Christ says,Yahweh is an ANGEL that is created by mistake by the Godess Sofia - Christ says,She acted alone without His aid,and the result is ths imperfect creation,the angel yahweh - HE says this Angel is MALFORMED,and RESEMBLES A DRAGON....

Whenthe bible manipulation began,the narrative of yahweh the angel dragon,became "superimposed" over another,lesser Angels,one named Lucifer..The truth of Lucifer,as far as I can perceive,is that when these two SEPERATE realms,finally become aware of each others existance - the angel lucifer appproaches Yahweh,and asks to INVESTIGATE this other and SUPERIOR realm - yahweh forbids him t ASCEND to this other realm - says to the angels HERE "Iam god,you will have non before me and I forbid you to rise ABOVE me (to nvestigate the new realm)" - then basically,kicks Lucifer and his entourage down here,on pretext of watching over man...UNTIL,they enter the prrime material plane,HERE,they have NO PHYSICAL BODIES !!

What I eman there is that this is an ENERGETIC CONSTRUCT - our realm and system here,our bodies here,are CARBON BASED structures,and the blueprint,plan for our design is contaned WITHIN DNA and is a "HARD code" that tells the energy how to behave,what to form,builds and assembles our body....The code is an INTEGRAL part of the body sysem,embedded n every cell,the principal "building block",fundamental constituent part....ANGELS though - have no such code in place - their energy s far more malleable,less rigid,and is structured primarily,by FORCE OF MIND,and not at all "hard coded" in the way th ehuman form is....They maintain their "solidity" and cohesion,by natural effort of Will - as remember here,MIND creates form snd structure - and so,likewise,Angels can assume pretty much any shape or form they can imagine...Their "natural "form",is usualy bipedal,wingless..According TO Christ though - this one angel,Yahweh,is created IMPERFECT and MALFORMED,and it is THIS angel whos NATURAL FORM resembles the "dragon"..

And so - they have no MATERIAL bodies - no collection of atoms,molecules,cells or organs - and so - NO CHROMOSOMES eiither...They are bipedal humanoforms - but really- that is as close as we come to their physical form...WE are a MECHANICAL CONSTRUCT and our bodies are mere ROBOTS that our MIND inhabits - a CREATED form,that is fuly perishable and finite - they are purely a construction of MIND,and so their form is far less rigid,ever changing,fluid as Mind itself and ETERNAL....

How about now, where every baby that is born is born a sinner. Only when that person is Born Again is sin removed from their body.

Every baby that is born is born a MORTAL - and Christ said that SIN,was indeed,relying on the mortal mind for our guidance,taking action,bourne OF the mortal mind IS sin....And so,YES - EVERYONE born mortal IS a siner,for this mortal mind,is ALL THEY HAVE ACCESS TO - usually...

All sin,comes from THIS lower mind - and see as I said elsewhere,this mind is divided - thinking mind HERE (sin) must join first with SUBCONSCIOUS Self (thus Soul,eternal nature is realised) - and this union of Self,unlocks a "gateway",that allows THAT Presence to be realised,HERE within the thinking mind..Thus indeed,the individal IS BORN AGAIN - not a new body,but a new MIND a WHOLE MIND - this part thinking reading writing posts,tied together with the subconscius mind also.and Beyond...Look - from Thomas :

"61. Jesus said, "Two will recline on a couch; one will die, one will live."
Salome said, "Who are you mister? You have climbed onto my couch and eaten from my table as if you are from someone."
Jesus said to her, "I am the one who comes from what is whole. I was granted from the things of my Father."
"I am your disciple."
"For this reason I say, if one is whole, one will be filled with light, but if one is divided, one will be filled with darkness."
62. Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those who are worthy of my mysteries. "

Ok - sin - salvation - all about MIND - how well you know your Self,your nature and true intent...He says first - 2 will recline,1 lives 1 dies...MIND - we enter into the commnuinon with this DIVIDED MIND,TWO modes.....One mode must "die",this mode here,reading this post - lower MORTAL MIND - this is SIN,this mind,its guidance and desires..INDIVIDUAL mind the "darkness" He spaeka sabout above,and this IS sin...

This part of self must die He says - but the other mode - subconscious Self,gateway to the Soul,is to LIVE..This is why He has us ALWAYS seek the *SILENCE* of the mind - so that we can take THIS part here,down deep INTO the subconscious mind,to begin this communion in earnest and authentic manner...

So Salome asks Him - WHO are you,for you ARE someone special...He says look - "I am GIVEN from the Father and come from that which is WHOLE - therefore I say to you this,IF you ARE Whole,your mind will be filled with **LIGHT** - and htis is salvation,sin free.....

CHRIST - OF the FATHER - comes formthe things that are WHOLE - and when we achive this inner union,th gateway opens,allowing this Light to flood us - the Light is a PRESENCE,the Holy Ghost,and thus we now have a NEW MIND - and thus,the personality presented,is literally BORN AGAIN,with a new perception of Self and beyond..

*SILENCE - the TRINITY mind - TRUE Divine - stepped forth unbidden,out of NOTHING - void emptyness existed,then the Father stirs,His mind awakens to its own Self conception....IT calls forth first a feminine aspect - Sofia - and alongside this,the Male aspect Christ - thus the TRINITY are Self generated FROM SILENCE...

**LIGHT** - the Fathers first Self awareness causes a symbolic representation to be realised - literally - a cloud of LIGHT,appears IN this void barren "place"...

The quite frm THomas above,is the basis of His teachng about sin,salvation,lower mind and Divine Presence - Similar to when He says - KNOW THY SELF,become known and all lthe hidden things are revealed.....Know thy SELF - mend the broken mind,heal the divided self and become WHOLE..

Similar to when He says - bring forth THAT WHICH IS WITHIN YOU,and you are SAVED,but if you do not have this within you,cannot find it or cannot bring this forth,then you are doomed to poverty - lesser mind - trapped in SIN....ALL ABOUT MIND...

And of course - similar to when He says ) I and the Father are ONE (no seperation)- now whosoever shall drink from MY mouth,shall BECOME ME - I myself shall BECOME THAT ONE (no seperation) and all the mystries shall be revealed..

Mend the divied mind here - call forth the Presence - approach Christ...The more the divide inthis mind then,the more "darkness" fils us He says - the more we heal this divide,theore we become filled with Divine Light....The roces sis a UNION of MIND - here with subcosncious Self - opent he inner Gtaeway - bring forth the Ftahrs Kingdom,here and now....This first stage,is mirtal,SIN FILLED,for it is ALWAYS the realm of THIS limited mind....Take this mind though,ente the stil SILENCE deep within,and the cmunion begiins - find thw Light there - call forth the Presence there - enter the Gateway for the Self,by the Self...Thus you will take the dark sin filledmind hre - and allow it to be replaced by the Light and the New Presence - born again - thus with THAT guidance,Holy,Divine and etenal,sin and a its base actions are no longer even possibilities as that lower,limited mind,no longer even exists....

Originally Posted by Tristran

So why did the Bible show him as a snake or seraph ? If he was in orb form then the Bible would have said 'spirit' form.

How about now, where every baby that is born is born a sinner. Only when that person is Born Again is sin removed from their body. Hence the sin chromosome is switched off and their name is written back into the Book of Life.

Then how come every person who thinks they are born again--dies and pays the wages of their own sin?

Originally Posted by 333xforever

Why was sin allowed in the first place?

God placed a single tree in the garden and said--do not eat of it. This gave mortals free will to choose to listen to Gods advice, they would have been robots otherwise. Gods decisions are always correct.
They did not touch the tree until satan lied to Eve. Rebellion was born.

[Tristran]

Originally Posted by kjw47

Then how come every person who thinks they are born again--dies and pays the wages of their own sin?

When everybody, reaches Judgment Day: if they are Born Again they will have the ultimate lawyer standing beside them who will make YHWH forgive them of all the sins that they committed.

If they are not Born Again they will stand alone. Only those sinners who know everything since Day 1 and before will stand a chance of saying the right things and being forgiven.

Everyone pays the wages for their sins. Its the final destination that matters.

Jesus will keep the spirit being judged in Heaven. The lone spirit will descend.