No God

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by running

nature proves her point that its a circle we travel to back to ourselves(bliss and silence), everytime somebody goes through the process and to the bliss without having been a part of a special or particular belief system.

in my view point its a lack of courage and faith to believe that the divine can't resolve whatever conflicts may be going on inside the person. by her power of joy/love and silence/peace.

lastly in my viewpoint if it wasn't for narcissist tendencys from spiritual leaders we would all know that it is a circle we all travel. back to ourselves(bliss and silence). we would know this is and has always been our true nature(where we came).

'God is a circle whose centre is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere' (Hermes Trismegistus)

[running]

Originally Posted by JustBe

'God is a circle whose centre is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere' (Hermes Trismegistus)

exactly! everything and everybody. which is why in my view bliss and silence is in all things. awaiting recognition of itself.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by running

exactly! everything and everybody. which is why in my view bliss and silence is in all things. awaiting recognition of itself.

If its all one and you are all of the one, could it be said, that bliss and silence is awaiting recognition of you as everything? Bliss and silence bringing you back to know who you really are?

In knowing myself as emptiness dancing, I am not this or that..I’m just being me.

[running]

Originally Posted by JustBe

If its all one and you are all of the one, could it be said, that bliss and silence is awaiting recognition of you as everything? Bliss and silence bringing you back to know who you really are?

In knowing myself as emptiness dancing, I am not this or that..I’m just being me.

that is the experience of bliss and silence in a certain way. but many people already experience that before bliss from the emotional body. some even experience it from the mind i believe. then you have experinces of mediumship where you can experience another as you in a sense while you are there but some of you is out of the way witnessing. there are many things.

with all that said you can't live functionally with all that going on. i know i cant. during the dating process of the bliss and silence i was experiencing a lot of that phenomena. its sorta i think gonna happen for many or some of us while things open up. for me much of all that or almost all of that settled down and what i experience today is very manageable.

for the most part98% of the time im just enjoying the bliss and silence of us as one. its as if my nervous system is intermingling with my environment and perhaps other things that i may not be seeing with my eyes. so its more a lot of good foods at the buffet, there all good but there are differences. for example. when im in the eastern half of texas its an exciting joy. sorta amped up love all over the place. its exhilarating. western half there is joy but the feeling of peace and silence is more in charge. new mexico feels enchanting, sorta romantic, which is funny because its called the land of enchantment. lol. i think they got that right. people are similiar.

the bliss and silence and its flavors doesn't necessarely keep me from jjust being me also. im just doing it in the enjoyment of the buffet. my minds not on identifying everything. the enjoyment is just happening. i can be more a part of it. contemplate it. identify things but i dont have to or do i most of the time.

[running]

in a general sense it feels like your making love with everything in like a soup that you and it and your drinking it up. its a non doing. unless one wished to make more of it. so it doesn't have to get in the way with like one may think. and the idea of worrying about desiring it is ridiculious as it isn't even something you could wish away.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by JustBe

It reminded me of Townsville where I, long time ago lived.

Lol to ice cream bucket, but yes you do what you need to do. Those boys in the video had me laughing. Even as they set themselves up, they still went through the “unknown” and the shock when it swiped their helmets. I’ve had that experience before, it’s rather unnerving.

Leunig and prayer I do..

I sent that prayer to my friend, she’s been bird watching new species in her garden, finding their names and enjoying the birdsong. Now her domestic killers have all passed over. Her dog was an incredible guard dog, but gee she kept everything out. I remember one day having to rescue a porcupine from her attempts to harm. One would think the spikes would be a big aversion, but no, not her.

Oh, this thread has moved along and I am still in Townsville ….

Townsville popped into my head as well, maybe because you had thought of it, or maybe because it is a little bit dryer there as Magpies aren’t exactly your deep-deep rainforest birds.

The ice-cream bucket was recommended I think last year in the “Current Affairs” program as - how to get from your back door & over the lawn - to your shed.

With those boys I was thinking about Gem and his equanimity – keeping it cool – not losing one’s nerve, one’s balance - whatever happens – Not being swayed by hope or fear – as to not fall off your bike.

Good Hinayanists make good Tantrics – me thinks. The path can be navigated.

But yes, even when you know what to expect and are set up for it, ice-cream buckets and all, there is still the ‘shock of the unknown’.

*

[sentient]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Sentient, hello there. You touch on a foundational truth. If the experience of incarnated humanity of a narcissist is stunted, deformed, &/or otherwise foundationally different to your own, there is no presumptive common ground. The existence of (a growing number of) narcissists and the increasing acceptance of amoral utilitarianism as a normative basis for human interaction is a real and present threat or disturbance to equanimity for one and all, at both individual and collective levels. Internally and externally.

It is a difficult reality for many of us to accept , but we cannot guarantee commonality nor any desired outcomes from the narcissist in growth or behaviour which society does not force or extract. Likewise, superficial compliance does not guarantee any deeper transformation or growth in any particular direction. Last, the mainstreaming of narcissistic behaviour at the level of society has also complicated humanity's ability to promote social welfare, justice, and balance as an natural extension of equanimity as a social good and (essentially) a core human right, even.

The existence and perhaps even real growth of narcissists in our human population calls for firm boundaries and real social and even legal repercussions, as needed, to minimise egregious narcissistic predation and parasitic, egregious consumption of resources in their surrounds, as they move through life from a narcissistic, predatory perspective/centre -- which tends to view others from a perspective of amoral utilitarianism. This perspective dehumanises others, as does any exchange or interaction which is predicated upon amoral utilitarianism.

You can arguably directly equate amoral utilitarianism with narcissism, as it is not a belief system for narcissists but rather represents their direct experience with the world and the rest of "humanity" who are not in fact seen as fully human but who rather exist to gratify the immediate needs of the narcissist. "Treatment" is effective only to the extent a narcissist is willing to take ownership and work on him- or herself...and this is extremely rare. It may take many lifetimes before they progress from a predatory approach to one that is more equitable and just.

You've noted the problem quite well. It is a bit of a naïve arrogance to assume that our desire for divine union or bliss is "the same" all round for all humanity. Just as it is a bit of a naïve arrogance to assume that even the broadest seeming hierarchy of needs would apply "across the board", even across foundational, intrinsic differences in our physical incarnations. And I say this very kindly, with all due respect to all others, and with ill intent toward none.

There is often no wrong intent, no intent to do ill when we dismiss differences as being foundational and vital...but if we do not acknowledge these, we limit our own ability to apprehend truth. We limit our own perspective and our own growth. There are foundational differences between us and amongst us which cannot be readily amended or addressed, and we ignore these at our peril.

Until we acknowledge the reality of what is, we cannot take ownership of our responsibilities...of both our prerogatives and of our limits and limitations.
And your example is a core one. I.e., the narcissist experiences reality differently, operates from amoral utilitarianism, assumes the universality and preeminence of a unilateral perspective (their own), and will not reflect or take ownership. And therefore, the narcissist tends to experience a severely contracted ability to grow and apprehend (new) truth.

Peace & blessings
7L

Well............ talking about birds and Leunig and narcissists …..
https://www.leunig.com.au/images/rec...narcissist.jpg

and losing one's mind
https://images.perthnow.com.au/publi...impolicy=pn_v3

*

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

nature proves her point that its a circle we travel to back to ourselves(bliss and silence), everytime somebody goes through the process and to the bliss without having been a part of a special or particular belief system.

Running, hello there. Agreed we are right where we are, at centre. That is the realisation. The journey is not one of returning to centre unless we have stepped away. So it is and it is not...it depends And those different places on the journey are completely and wholly different ways of being. Wholly transformational and we cannot experience either distance from centre OR living from centre without some deep transformation. That's why so many feel fear, anxiety, or impending death or doom...hahaha!

The thing is...with all due respect...your statement can be seen as too vague and amorphous to reach anyone deeply. The fact is, even if we all are on a journey of some kind...that is about as far as the universality goes. And we need to acknowledge the infinity of diversity, because it illuminates our perspective in too many ways to count.

Everybody doesn't go through the same process at the same time and in the same way. And that makes all the difference. The journey isn't qualitatively AT ALL the same. It is simply "the same" in "the end"...which is both meaningful and also utterly meaningless to any one of us and our particular journey.

Let me give you an example since it's on the table. If you and I experience narcissism as an infant and a toddler, it is on the normal developmental timeline. However, if we retain that narcissism into adulthood, perhaps across many lifetimes, we in fact are having a fundamentally different human experience (perhaps across many lifetimes) -- which is constrained and felt and perceived in vastly different ways. Which you and I can currently only try to imagine.

in my view point its a lack of courage and faith to believe that the divine can't resolve whatever conflicts may be going on inside the person. by her power of joy/love and silence/peace.

First, at the most general level...i.e., over the span of eternity (and countless lifetimes as needed or wanted)...I agree.

And I think it's important to remember that "the span of eternity" is exactly what comprises the Divine timeline. It's not right here, right now, all the b@stards who are hard-core narcissists and predators will be transformed or that God will make it all ok.

Rather, over the span of eternity, it's all good and it's all to the good. The kabbalistic saying is "gam zu l'tova (it's all to the good [over eternity]).

Meantime, we all have to hang together and do our best toward the highest good of all...which -- as the "good book" says repeatedly -- is all about caring for the weak, the vulnerable, the stranger, and of course, yourself and your neighbour, all equitably. And over the span of eternity, we trust in What Is and our commitment to what is right-aligned in spirit.

lastly in my viewpoint if it wasn't for narcissist tendencys from spiritual leaders we would all know that it is a circle we all travel. back to ourselves(bliss and silence). we would know this is and has always been our true nature(where we came).

Well, it's certainly true that leadership roles may attract predators and narcissists...but to be fair, for certain, they are not limited to leadership roles

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by sentient

Well............ talking about birds and Leunig and narcissists …..
https://www.leunig.com.au/images/rec...narcissist.jpg

and losing one's mind
https://images.perthnow.com.au/publi...impolicy=pn_v3

*

Sentient, LOL...love the latter pic...we should all be so lucky

Peace & blessings
7L

[running]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Running, hello there. Agreed we are right where we are, at centre. That is the realisation. The journey is not one of returning to centre unless we have stepped away. So it is and it is not...it depends And those different places on the journey are completely and wholly different ways of being. Wholly transformational and we cannot experience either distance from centre OR living from centre without some deep transformation. That's why so many feel fear, anxiety, or impending death or doom...hahaha!

The thing is...with all due respect...your statement can be seen as too vague and amorphous to reach anyone deeply. The fact is, even if we all are on a journey of some kind...that is about as far as the universality goes. And we need to acknowledge the infinity of diversity, because it illuminates our perspective in too many ways to count.

Everybody doesn't go through the same process at the same time and in the same way. And that makes all the difference. The journey isn't qualitatively AT ALL the same. It is simply "the same" in "the end"...which is both meaningful and also utterly meaningless to any one of us and our particular journey.

Let me give you an example since it's on the table. If you and I experience narcissism as an infant and a toddler, it is on the normal developmental timeline. However, if we retain that narcissism into adulthood, perhaps across many lifetimes, we in fact are having a fundamentally different human experience (perhaps across many lifetimes) -- which is constrained and felt and perceived in vastly different ways. Which you and I can currently only try to imagine.

First, at the most general level...i.e., over the span of eternity (and countless lifetimes as needed or wanted)...I agree.

And I think it's important to remember that "the span of eternity" is exactly what comprises the Divine timeline. It's not right here, right now, all the b@stards who are hard-core narcissists and predators will be transformed or that God will make it all ok.

Rather, over the span of eternity, it's all good and it's all to the good. The kabbalistic saying is "gam zu l'tova (it's all to the good [over eternity]).

Meantime, we all have to hang together and do our best toward the highest good of all...which -- as the "good book" says repeatedly -- is all about caring for the weak, the vulnerable, the stranger, and of course, yourself and your neighbour, all equitably. And over the span of eternity, we trust in What Is and our commitment to what is right-aligned in spirit.

Well, it's certainly true that leadership roles may attract predators and narcissists...but to be fair, for certain, they are not limited to leadership roles

Peace & blessings
7L

within your idea of what and how one is to be as a person, what you think has some validity. in becoming able to open to the expereince of bliss and silence. the problem is it isn't based upon bliss and silence but from the ideas built up in your mind.

you just as anyone else has the right to come up with a behavioral system behaving as a box of limitations to what is included, orr a must have i should say, to become in the experience of the divine. so its not in my interest to make a long debate about it.

fears, anxietys, and the rest experinced during the awakening process has mostly to do with clearing of stuck emotions built up from difficult experinces throughout the span of many lifetimes.