Observer vs Observed

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

\If in reading this, you tell yourself and feel, "well what's the fkn point!?!??" That's it. It has no point. There is nothing to claim and no one to claim it.. Yet in that observation you are so close. Its already there but the distance and journey that comes from fundamental separation must collapse first.

Excellent analysis, insofar as it goes (which the above final paragraph clearly indicates is nowhere), believing himself to be fully 'awake', dreaming (like those he 'observes' and dream-'points' at) No1 one!

What sort of psychospiritual state ('where' doesn't apply!) have you arrived at or maybe still on your way to 'creating' for yourself? "Well what's the fkn point!?!?? That's it. It has no point. There is nothing to claim and no one to claim it." logically results in complete "neti neti" nihilism.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism: "Nihilism is the point of view, or philosophy, antithetical to the reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Moral nihilists assert that morality does not exist at all. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.

The term is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence that one may develop upon realising there are no necessary norms, rules, or laws.

Nihilism has also been described as conspicuous in or constitutive of certain historical periods. For example, Jean Baudrillard and others have called postmodernity a nihilistic epoch[3] and some religious theologians and figures of religious authority have asserted that postmodernity and many aspects of modernity represent a rejection of theism, and that such rejection of theistic doctrine entails nihilism."

Please note: I am not advocating getting lost in 'labrynths' of multiple overlapping/intersecting circles of multi-tracked logic (such as those r6 and Mike are play-fully bandying about here) either. I am just commenting on the extreme 'poverty' of what I (subjectively dream-see as being No1's (talk about ego!) philosophical nihilism.

From my book: "These words are meant to alert and affirm. A great deal is at stake. We are entering another crucial phase of Life’s earthly development. Ecosystemic stress now makes radical change absolutely necessary. Only those who take positive steps to improve our conjoint condition will live on as part of the future. The destiny of all who don’t acknowledge and respond to what Life calls for is oblivion. The logic is quite simple: Those who close their minds [and therefore hearts] to what is really going on are bound to stray from Life’s path. Those who harden their hearts become stones in effect and go no further. Only those who recognize and responsively engage with the creative impulse within others around them drink “of the fountain of the water of Life freely” [citation omitted] and flourish as resonant parts of the Whole. ... In the long run, unselfish participation is the most rewarding. Those who are contribute-ive experience the great*est joy and achieve the biggest success. Both because they themselves feel deserving and because appreciative others wish them well, they are psychospiritually aided and abetted in ways some think quite miraculous. Infusions of energy give them the power they need to carry out their tasks. Infusions of knowledge make their way clear. Whatever pains they may take and sacrifices they may make are more than com*pensated for by blissful infusions of love. In ways I have described and others I have barely hinted at, because Life Itself is the foundation on which they build, their capacity for creative expression continues to increase and endure."

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Be well. I'm off to the races.

What 'race' would that be, to 'go' 'nowhere' - to 'attain' 'oblivion'?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by davidsun

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism: "Nihilism is the point of view, or philosophy, antithetical to the reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Moral nihilists assert that morality does not exist at all. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.

The term is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence that one may develop upon realising there are no necessary norms, rules, or laws.

Nihilism has also been described as conspicuous in or constitutive of certain historical periods. For example, Jean Baudrillard and others have called postmodernity a nihilistic epoch[3] and some religious theologians and figures of religious authority have asserted that postmodernity and many aspects of modernity represent a rejection of theism, and that such rejection of theistic doctrine entails nihilism."

Please note: I am not advocating getting lost in 'labrynths' of multiple overlapping/intersecting circles of multi-tracked logic (such as those r6 and Mike are play-fully bandying about here) either. I am just commenting on the extreme 'poverty' of what I (subjectively dream-see as being No1's (talk about ego!) philosophical nihilism.

The wiki link you posted does not work. Nihilism? Really? Did you read all of r6r6r and my posts before making that statement?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Science ergo the scientific method does not recognize consciousnes nor mind/intellect/concepts as science because,

1} neither have been quantized or quantified, and,

2} unlike fermionic matter, or bosonic forces --gravity and dark energy presumed forces that effect matter--- found in the standard model, or presumed will be somday.

Consicousness and mind/intellect/concepts are not of the caliber or catagory of fermion or boson .

We need to review and place in your concept and see how that would look

0} Cosmic Trinty: " U "niverse/" G "od

1} Eternally existent Sprit-1 { metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts } ex concepts of God, Space, Univeerse, Dogs, Baseballs, Toyotat etc and ego/i as well as a spirit-of-intent .

....note: The times that I have tainted Spirit-of-intent as purple, is the closet I come to expressing a connection/association to "consciousness" -- a term that commonly lacks clarity in definition--- to metaphysical-1, and with good reason, that I dont think I need to explain the reasoning, unless others ask me to do so.

----------------------conceptual line-of-demarcation----

2} { not spirit } eternally existent, metaphysical-2, macro-infinite non-occupied space, that, embraces/surrounds the following,

3} eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe/God/Uni-V-erse

So now, we have Mike suggesting a the entry --ex a 4th-- th primary catagory called consciousness.

So Mike, how does it specifically diffferrentiate from the above three?

How does rationally fit into this into 1, 2 or 3.

Personally I see consciousness as Fuller does, degrees of relationship ---of occupied space , that ultimately may lead to a varying degrees of complex spirit-of-intent.

So here we my see spirit-of-intent in catagory in two catagories, however, since it is a resultant, just as access to metaphysical-1 is resultant, I place it more in the metaphysical-1 catagory, and because its has not been quantised nor qunatified,

Ok Mike, Hope that helps set the stage where and how you want to work in one or more ideas{ concepts } of consciousness into the top of the Cosmic Trinity.

I missed this post somehow until now. The only thing that makes sense to me right now is the ego is a function/product of our monkey brains evolving for millions of years while consciousness and intuition could be coming from our heart, which is connected to our nervous system. The nervous system is an energy system, who knows how much information/energy our nervous system and nerves can handle and carry. My guess is a lot. But then again, consciousness could not take up that much energy in our nervous system and nerves, like a power over ethernet type of thing.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The wiki link you posted does not work. Nihilism? Really? Did you read all of r6r6r and my posts before making that statement?

The wiki link works for me. The comment re: 'nihilism' was clearly in relation to what No1 had posted.

My comment relating to your and and r6's posting was: "Please note: I am not advocating getting lost in 'labyrinths' of multiple overlapping/intersecting circles of multi-tracked logic (such as those r6 and Mike are play-fully bandying about here) either."

[Heart]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Heart, I have been thinking about the post you made a while ago about believing is a lie. That post made me ask myself if believing something through the conditioned ego-mind is the same thing as knowing something through the ego-mind that is balanced with intuition while using logic, reason and common sense. I got the answer that they are not the same, which makes sense.

Contradictions of logic....
While we are subjected to science which would have us box in our beliefs, religion would have us blindly believe while in that box!!

You are not wrong in seeing that there is a difference, a Plato once said 'We would not come into the form of Man, if we were never shown the truth'

I will continue with my response to your interesting quest... time is saying sleep for now

regards

Heart

[JosephineB]

Looks like the reason the wiki link about nihilism didn't work is because there was a colon at the end. If that's taken off it links to the page ok. With a bit of tweaking the information can be shared.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

Looks like the reason the wiki link about nihilism didn't work is because there was a colon at the end. If that's taken off it links to the page ok. With a bit of tweaking the information can be shared.

Thank you Josephine, I thought it was just me.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by heart

Contradictions of logic....
While we are subjected to science which would have us box in our beliefs, religion would have us blindly believe while in that box!!

You are not wrong in seeing that there is a difference, a Plato once said 'We would not come into the form of Man, if we were never shown the truth'

I will continue with my response to your interesting quest... time is saying sleep for now

regards

Heart

Yes, the ego is a tricky little bugger like that.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I missed this post somehow until now. The only thing that makes sense to me right now is the ego is a function/product of our monkey brains evolving for millions of years while consciousness and intuition could be coming from our heart, which is connected to our nervous system. The nervous system is an energy system, who knows how much information/energy our nervous system and nerves can handle and carry. My guess is a lot. But then again, consciousness could not take up that much energy in our nervous system and nerves, like a power over ethernet type of thing.

R6r6r, I think consciousness could be the spirit-of-intent of our creator/the Cosmic Trinity. The intent is for our creator/Cosmic Trinity to create, enjoy, and express itself through occupied space. And to fill up Cosmic Trinity's unoccupied space. What else is something that is infinite going to do?

Edit: I think consciousness is an aspect of Cosmic Trinity that makes the Cosmic Trinity aware of all living things, yhe Cosmic Trinity is aware of the the living thing inside the living thing's mind or wherever the consciousness that comes out of our eyes comes from (of course it works differently for living things that do not have a mind),

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

R6r6r, I think consciousness could be the spirit-of-intent of our creator/the Cosmic Trinity. The intent is for our creator/Cosmic Trinity to create, enjoy, and express itself through occupied space. And to fill up Cosmic Trinity's unoccupied space. What else is something that is infinite going to do?

Edit: I think consciousness is an aspect of Cosmic Trinity that makes the Cosmic Trinity aware of all living things, yhe Cosmic Trinity is aware of the the living thing inside the living thing's mind or wherever the consciousness that comes out of our eyes comes from (of course it works differently for living things that do not have a mind),

What makes even more sense is for the infinite/Cosmic Trinity to be nature expressing itself etc