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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #1  
Old 22-03-2018, 05:31 AM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Posts: 345
 
animal mind and non-meditation

The instructions for non-meditation are: no effort, no technique.

To elaborate on that, this is a tweet I've made several times:

'Meditate like an animal. Don't TRY. Just BE. Just sit there, innocently and naturally.'

You might think that that wouldn't even be 'meditation'. Hence the term, 'NON-meditation'.

The 'meditative mind' could also be called 'animal mind', because the quality of the meditative mind is very similar to the mind of an animal.

A few characteristics of an animal's mind are:

- non-resistance

- effortless and natural

- allowing of connection to Source and divine nature

- lets thoughts and feelings come and go on their own, innocently and naturally

- simple being, free, at peace

- naturally free of conflict and mental manipulation

The practice of non-meditation is one way to develop animal mind.
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  #2  
Old 23-03-2018, 08:21 AM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Posts: 551
 
Animals do live in the present more or less but like human animals, they do cycle through different levels of identification with their brain/mind. Like cats will sit in your lap and purr while looking you in the eyes, but then they see a fly moving on a wall and jump at it to try to catch and kill it....

So animals are not always at peace. They can be angry, territorial, petty, giving, nice, mean, upset, scared, embarrassed, happy, sad, and on and on. I have some pet cats and yea, I have seen them when they are "not a cat," not identifying with their animal mind and instincts, and are just awareness and peace/contentment/love. But then other times they are being what is the worse of an animal. But then that's also a side effect of their personalities.

One of my cats is an angel. The other one thinks he owns every inch of the house and has to constantly chase the other one all over never letting her have a space to call her own. She likes to sleep in cardboard boxes as she at least knows he can't attack her from above. He will kick her out of whatever box she tries to sleep in though. He will not give her even a corner to live in or claim as hers. He is alpha male and owns every inch of his living space.

He is a long way off from being at peace, but he does at times be in that space. The other cat can't really relax much due to the male. She does sometimes, but she is always ready to bolt if she hears a noise or sees him approaching.

Anyone who has lived in nature knows animals do some pretty messed up things. They can be very violent and cruel towards their own kind and others. Like when a male lion takes over a pride, fights the old leader, chases him off in a violent way, then kills all of his offspring. It's not just predators either. I've seen wild rabbits, horses and others in some very violent fights.
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  #3  
Old 23-03-2018, 06:18 PM
happy soul happy soul is offline
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Posts: 345
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You have some good points imo.
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  #4  
Old 24-03-2018, 12:06 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,178
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
The instructions for non-meditation are: no effort, no technique.

To elaborate on that, this is a tweet I've made several times:

'Meditate like an animal. Don't TRY. Just BE. Just sit there, innocently and naturally.'

You might think that that wouldn't even be 'meditation'. Hence the term, 'NON-meditation'.

The 'meditative mind' could also be called 'animal mind', because the quality of the meditative mind is very similar to the mind of an animal.

A few characteristics of an animal's mind are:

- non-resistance

- effortless and natural

- allowing of connection to Source and divine nature

- lets thoughts and feelings come and go on their own, innocently and naturally

- simple being, free, at peace

- naturally free of conflict and mental manipulation




The practice of non-meditation is one way to develop animal mind.



I definitely don't want an animal mind, the one I have now causes enough problems
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  #5  
Old 24-03-2018, 04:40 PM
M. H. Lillie M. H. Lillie is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 23
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul

- non-resistance

- effortless and natural

- allowing of connection to Source and divine nature

- lets thoughts and feelings come and go on their own, innocently and naturally

- simple being, free, at peace

- naturally free of conflict and mental manipulation

I really enjoy this description of non-meditation, even if the animal analogue is somewhat more tricky, as Rain95 says. As I see it, non-meditation might be seen as nurturing a state of mind that is neither active nor reactive. Not active, as in we are not trying for any activity or technique. Not reactive, as we are not following our "reptilian brain" mindlessly with such reactions as a cat chasing a fly. Of course, that sort of reactivity is also what we may seek to still through other forms of meditation and technique, but perhaps non-meditation can be considered a state of being—even if only temporary—between triggers (reactions) that pull us away from this state of mind and techniques (actions) that may help to return us to this state of being.
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  #6  
Old 24-03-2018, 05:02 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,178
 
Non-meditation is called Mahamudra, it's practised by Tibetan Buddhists. Instead of seeking or sitting down to Meditate you let Meditation come to you naturally.
Non-meditation acknowledges that the resources of peace, joy and compassion that we seek in Meditation is already there and through Non-Meditation which is a different relationship with Meditation practices helps our Buddha Nature to emerge naturally.
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  #7  
Old 24-03-2018, 06:22 PM
M. H. Lillie M. H. Lillie is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 23
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Non-meditation acknowledges that the resources of peace, joy and compassion that we seek in Meditation is already there and through Non-Meditation which is a different relationship with Meditation practices helps our Buddha Nature to emerge naturally.

Thank you for sharing—I love that concept! I find that sometimes my ego gets overly engaged by thinking of meditation as something I am accomplishing. I like being reminded that meditation is simply an acknowledgement of our natural state of being.
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  #8  
Old 24-03-2018, 07:13 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,178
 
[quote=M. H. Lillie]Thank you for sharing—I love that concept! I find that sometimes my ego gets overly engaged by thinking of meditation as something I am accomplishing. I like being reminded that meditation is simply an acknowledgement of our natural state of being.[/QUOTE


Glad you enjoyed it

I think forcing yourself to Meditate is similar to trying to force yourself to sleep, it doesn't work unless your tired.
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  #9  
Old 24-03-2018, 10:49 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 551
 
Eckhart Tolle is quoted as saying, "I have lived with many Zen Masters, all of them cats." So Tolle likes the analogy too :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
Don't TRY. Just BE. Just sit there, innocently and naturally.'

The writers of movies often borrow a lot of philosophy from Eastern Religions, the Matrix Trilogy comes to mind, but then Yoda in Star Wars said a lot of Zen type spiritual stuff. The famous Yoda line, "Do or do not, there is no try." That's really a factual statement. "Trying" is factual and accurate and true in many circumstances, but trying cannot exist in "presence" or what I would call true meditation or mindfulness. Trying is wholly thought based, so if one is aware of thought without the thought based "observer," there can be no trying. You are either doing it or not. You can't try to do it. Trying means you are not doing it. Trying means you are identified with thinking and mindfulness is the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
'NON-meditation'.

- non-resistance

- effortless and natural

- allowing of connection to Source and divine nature

- lets thoughts and feelings come and go on their own, innocently and naturally

- simple being, free, at peace

- naturally free of conflict and mental manipulation

Another word for all of those naturally occurring results would be selfless. It's interesting but words like meditation, non-meditation, mindfulness, and on and on all involve a person or self. The one who does them. So they can all be misunderstood or applied incorrectly. But then so can the word selfless.

Selfless doesn't mean to not have a self, there again the witness or observer is subconsciously putting itself in there as the doer. The one who won't have a self. Selfless means the self is selfless. One is empty and fresh like the clear water of a river. One is not identified with memory or thought or conditioning as self. But one is still fully there, and I would say more there. Somebody who takes their thoughts to be them, how "there" or "here" really are they? They are living habitually and unconsciously with limited self awareness. I'd say they are less here than somebody not identified with these things. But of course the world would say the opposite.

"Look at that hermit living in a cave, he is a nothing and a nobody. he doesn't even belong to a religion!" Nothing and a nobody, the path to the divine.

I remember a guru once said, "you can't get the divine, you are what prevents the divine from coming. When you leave, the divine comes." You" there is not awareness or consciousness, it is all the rest we call ourselves or identify with, pay attention to, give energy to.
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  #10  
Old 25-03-2018, 08:59 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,178
 
Mindfulness in Buddhism

Mindfulness as taught by Buddha is not the same as secular Mindfulness,
it's part of the eightfold path that leads to the realization of the four noble truths and the end of mental suffering. In Pali it's ' Samma Sati 'which translates as “wise mindfulness.” It's different because it's part of, rather than a standalone practise.
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