Beating myself up for looking at women - hinders spiritual progress...

[Tobi]

Hey Q-Kev...you just sound like a natural guy to me. My feeling is that you must try to smile at yourself and not be so hard on yourself or suffer all that guilt.If you could read the minds of most 'red-blooded' males (of all species!) you would probably find the same.
Guilt, especially about something so natural in your make up, is going to drag you down -even moreso than the distraction of sexy women!

And none of that means you love or desire your wife any less.

[Justme1981]

Originally Posted by QuantumKev

I have struggled with this for most of my adult life, and wonder if any men or women out there have any advice or wisdom to share with me.

The thing is, I can't STAND the fact that I just can't seem to avoid looking at attractive women, or from clicking on stories on the internet with scantily clad women (not porn, just like stories on TMZ, DailyMail.com, etc) or otherwise acting in a way that I consider to be lustful, and less than spiritual. I am happily married, have never cheated on my wife and have no intention to. But darn it if I can't stop myself from sometimes leering at an attractive woman dressed in a short skirt or something of the like!

I have often times thought, and even wished, that we were all androgynous so that I could be free from this seemingly deeply ingrained compulsion - that a whole part of my mind and behavior could be freed up for something better. I have prayed about it, set conscious intentions, even talked to a counselor, but it truly does seem like some genetic thing - maybe the whole "programming to ensure procreation" thing or something. But I can't STAND it about myself. I wish when I saw a woman in real life or an image of one on tv or the internet, I could just look at it like I was looking at a coffee cup or something - I feel like a slave to a part of myself that I can't seem to alter.

And I am not some big "creepo" or anything. I don't leer at women when I'm around my wife, don't watch a bunch of porn or anything, don't buy magazies like Maxim or anything (not that any of those things make one a creepo btw! Lol). I don't hang out with other guys and talk about how hot some woman or another is. I try to be as respectful as I can. But it still plagues me to even have the thoughts or compulsion to "look." And the thing is, it makes me feel "un-spiritual" - like I am not doing a good job of keeping my lower nature in check. That's the real bugger for me.

Anyone out there have any advice, wisdom or insight into this topic? I have been told that it's not a big deal to just look, that that's how men were "programmed," and as long as I don't constantly obsess on it or act on it, it's not a big deal. But it bothers me - don't like that part of myself, that part of "being a man," and it causes me grief. I sometimes wonder if being blind wouldn't be a blessing in that regard (not that it's a blessing or to belittle being blind - just saying that's how much I want to be rid of that 'compulsion')


Many Blessings all...

QKev

This is how I overcame it. I do believe it is something to overcome especially if you are in a relationship.

1). Don't watch porn, I believe you said you do not watch porn.

More importantly,

2). Contemplate sex. What I mean by that is next time you have sex run through consciously what is going on. For a man an orgasm is about five seconds at most at most. So if you analyze this it is at most working towards a five second thrill. That's it. There really is no satisfaction before hand you will notice. All this effort for a five second thrill.

I can offer more angles but for now try that. I don't think there is anything wrong with guilt. Guilt is our conscious and so long as we can respect it and learn to coincide with it that is a good thing.

My Dad is a horrible flirt. He genuinely loves women, loves looking at them and flirting with them. Years ago a mutual friend of my Mom and Dad's once chastised him for doing so in front of my mother. My mother laughed and replied. "He's married, not dead." and then she added. "I'm not worried either." My Dad smiled, then kissed my Mom on top of her head, a rare public gesture of affection for him.

I asked Mom about it later and she told me that my Dad was the most monogamous man she'd ever met, that he totally scorned people who were unfaithful to their spouses and she knew that he would divorce her long before he'd ever play around on her. He had her permission to flirt all he liked and she in turn had his, so long as it was all in fun, and it did not go beyond that.

For the record it never did. They were married for 40 years before Mom got ill and died and though he has had a GF or two since he's never remarried. Mom was definitely it for him, and that despite the fact that she was a chronic alcoholic and mentally ill and as a result their marriage was often turbulent. He had EVERY reason to stray on her actually, but never did and I know that for a fact because I watched him totally chew out two of my brothers for playing around on their wives, later ex-wives. He loves his sons, but he was NOT happy that they broke their vows and let them know it.

The lesson here is there's a huge difference between thinking and doing, a line that should not be crossed. My Dad is a man's man. He likes his girly pics and his XXX movies. He likes to flirt with pretty women all the time. He's clearly hetero and has a working libido. He looks, and HOW, lol, but he's never rude about it. Every woman, no matter who they are, he treats them with respect. He may look and he may enjoy, but he's going to be polite even if the woman in front of him is a stripper. It's all about that, intent and respect.

So long as you are not being rude about it there's no harm in looking. You're bound to. It's part of having hormones. So long as you don't stray and you don't make your partner feel like she's "less" by constantly comparing her to them then I honestly don't think it's a big deal. You're allowed to enjoy the scenery, shrug. FYI, women look all the time too. It's allowed so long as you don't touch.... :P

[ocean breeze]

Anyone out there have any advice, wisdom or insight into this topic?

Acceptance and masturbation should help.

And the thing is, it makes me feel "un-spiritual" - like I am not doing a good job of keeping my lower nature in check. That's the real bugger for me.

Perhaps your lower nature should be accepted. To me it is "unspiritual" to suppress that part of yourself. This whole being "spiritual" is just some egotistical image that your trying to uphold and all its doing is creating more conflict within you. Perhaps that's whats really hindering your spiritual progress.

[CrystalSong]

Great advice here Q-Kev :)

From a woman perspective I can say I don't mind being noticed, or occasionally gawked at open mouthed even. But I have a healthy self -esteem. It's nice to be able to for a moment jog someone out of their humdrum routine and add interest to their day. Sometimes I'll return the favor and give a male an appreciating nod and smile for bringing physical beauty into my day also.

The only time it disturbs me is if the man is looking at a private part or follows the look with a lewd comment or gesture.
Men looking in appreciation doesn't bother me, I too find the human body and facial features fascinating in the endless types of combinations which can be achieved.

To me 'comparison' would be the 'anti-spiritual' thing, meaning to compare the one I've noticed and appreciated to the person I'm in a committed relationship with or any other person for that matter. Each should be appreciated for their own unique traits and not compared against any other. That is love - to see the beauty inside and out in all without lessening or diminishing it through comparison or judgment.

Originally Posted by QuantumKev

I have struggled with this for most of my adult life, and wonder if any men or women out there have any advice or wisdom to share with me.

The thing is, I can't STAND the fact that I just can't seem to avoid looking at attractive women, or from clicking on stories on the internet with scantily clad women (not porn, just like stories on TMZ, DailyMail.com, etc) or otherwise acting in a way that I consider to be lustful, and less than spiritual. I am happily married, have never cheated on my wife and have no intention to. But darn it if I can't stop myself from sometimes leering at an attractive woman dressed in a short skirt or something of the like!

But that's perfectly natural. Are you complaining about the very basis of organic life?!!

Admittedly, this phenomenon has been exploited by commerce for profit probably since the dawn of humanity - many in our current way of life simply don't know just how far they're exploited but exploited they are. It's well known that sex sells more by what's not quite revealed.

So it's very difficult to suggest how a full-bloodied male can suppress such urges without risk of the energies being released in some less palatable way. The same could be said of females, of course. At the risk of being blunt why not go out and find a female who can distract you from this apparent discomfort.

There is nothing wrong with the human body, nor attraction to the opposite sex, flirting...I'd worry if men stopped flirting!

Many Blessings all...

QKev

Likewise, to you.

[naturesflow]

Sometimes just reading some really confronting sad stories of woman and young girls sexually abused and disrespected and harmed by men can help put things into perspective. I am not saying what your doing is wrong, but the inner conflict you are showing, shows me you know on some level there is more to respecting woman than engaging in this way. Another way is to imagine your own daughter and how you would want her to be treated by men, valued and respected in ways that they embrace her spiritual natural beauty of being, not just a sexual fantasy for her body.

[FairyCrystal]

Originally Posted by QuantumKev

Wow, this is a great insight - I had not even considered that. Perhaps I will look into getting a reading as you suggest. Thanks for the advice/info!

Many Blessings....

Qkev

You're very welcome...
And if you do, make sure beforehand that the person in question is familiar with reading/healing past life issues (as in able to access higher / deeper dimension etc). Often someone's practice website will give info on their abilities and experience. And always trust your gut feeling when choosing someone.

[QT Pie]

Perhaps the incorrectness is in the assumption you can kill such leanings. You can't. And probably would hate life if you could. I do not believe in rejecting human behavior. That doesn't mean do whatever you want but fundimentally you are in severe judgement of self. Our human imperfection is a frame to highlight the perfection of the soul. We cannot make our humaness perfect. We can only love ourselves despite them.

As I see it the trouble is in the assumption you should "be" other than what you already are. The trouble is in the perspective of the act, and not the act itself.

[QuantumKev]

Wow, so many great replies here - thank you all! I greatly appreciate all the great advice.

I think what I have come away with after reading everyone's awesome replies is that it's not productive to be so hard on myself, that there are strong biological and genetic factors at work that predispose us to look at people of the opposite sex whom we find attractive, and that as long as I don't get into a habit of comparing my wife to other women or actually take any actions, there really is nothing "non-spiritual" about it.

It's just a matter of being a spiritual being having a human experience, and I really like what someone said about it not being so much about the act of noticing women as it is about the perception of the act. That really rings true to me.

I really appreciate all the great input from everyone here! I do have incredibly high standards for myself spiritually speaking - and I don't think that's always a bad thing - and as such, I need to be careful to not judge myself too harshly as someone else suggested. At the same time, I try to avoid the other side of that reasoning which would allow me to do certain things and then blame them on the fact that "I'm a man, what do you expect?" As with everything in life, it seems it's really all about balance, and I thank you all for pointing out some ways in which my thinking was out of balance, and for showing so much compassion and understanding

Many Blessings to all...

Qkev