Freedom - what does it entail?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sound

Hi daz :)
We can be free of the belief that we are entrapped. Physically, we can be (temporarily) restrained, however, spiritually we are as free as the proverbial bird ... we are free thinking ... I dont feel trapped within this universe, as has been previously suggested. To think in those terms, is a trap in and of itself, in one sense. To leave this universe, or shift our focus etc, would one then not feel trapped by where ever else one 'ended up' lol ...

Hi Sound .

I agree that one can be free from the belief but being entrapped or free from a particular mind set still means that one is of the mind . Can one be free of mind . Can there be total freedom whilst what we are is of the mind . Tzu mentions about a choice to be free in regards of 2 people that are in prison . Does Tzu have the choice to be free of mind . Did Tzu make the choice to be in experience of the mind . Who is Tzu who is Sound, who is Daz to make such choices ..

Whilst I am Daz that is of the mind Daz can never taste freedom nor can daz be free of suffering ..

That's why I stated no person can taste freedom .

When one has transcended the person one cannot know that they are free either because one must be in identification to know that ..

What you are has never been imprisoned . What one is doesn't know what freedom or imprisonment is . Only the self can know / relate to such states because the self is of the mind .



x daz x

[sound]

Hi again daz
Are you asking 'do we need to be free from the concept/idea/experience of freedom in order to experience 'true' freedom, which is 'no' freedom?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sound

Hi again daz
Are you asking 'do we need to be free from the concept/idea/experience of freedom in order to experience 'true' freedom, which is 'no' freedom?

Hi again kate thanks for the reply .

No one can experience freedom . Not what you are beyond identity nor the person in experience of identity because whilst one is in identity of the person they are restricted according to their mindful experience and understanding of what freedom and restriction is . .

The Individual that transcends the mindset that entertains imprisonment and freedom will be no-one that can relate to such states . . Therefore freedom is neither here or there .

It's like the old saying about enlightenment . No-one knows when they are . No-one knows when their sufferings end . No-one wil know what it is like to be free .

In a way there is no freedom nor Imprisonment . I suppose it depends on whom or what one thinks one is in relation to both mindful states .

x daz x

Greetings..

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Tzu .

What can a person be free of ...

What can what you are be free of ..

Is what you are imprisoned ..

Doesn't what you are need to be imprisoned in the first instance ..

x dazzle x

Hi GL: It's more simple than that, it's just a choice.. i'm not interested in philosophizing the issue, just dealing with what is actually happening..

I choose to be free of the philosophizing and conceptualizing, free to be present for what is actually happening..

Be well..

[Xan]

Originally Posted by God-Like

No one can experience freedom . Not what you are beyond identity nor the person in experience of identity because whilst one is in identity of the person they are restricted according to their mindful experience and understanding of what freedom and restriction is.

I suppose it depends on whom or what one thinks one is in relation to both mindful states .

x daz x

I know this is a popular idea in some circles these days, daz... that there is no one there to experience freedom, or to be enlightened. I don't see it so black and white, though.

In further along awakening the individual consciousness still experiences it all. The conditioned identity one once believed was 'me' has faded away but there is definitely experiencing going on as well as unique expressions of what is universal and unidentifiable. I see no need to attempt to resolve this paradox.

Clinging to any ideas, including those regarding who is or isn't free, are in the way of the wide openness of freedom. In fact, I see nothing else in the way of becoming free except how we hold on and resist in the mind.


Xan

Greetings..

The mind is not the villain, the villain is 'user error'..

Be well..

You're free as soon as you realize you're free.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..

Hi GL: It's more simple than that, it's just a choice.. i'm not interested in philosophizing the issue, just dealing with what is actually happening..

I choose to be free of the philosophizing and conceptualizing, free to be present for what is actually happening..

Be well..

I agree Tzu that the matter at hand implies simplicity as an answer being .

All that I am suggesting is that freedom comes from mind . There are so many levels to whom freedom applies to and how it relates to whom .

An individual can feel free after coming out of a suffocating relationship . An individual can feel free in solitary whilst shedding another self relating skin and so forth .

At a point there is no one left to feel free ..

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Xan

I know this is a popular idea in some circles these days, daz... that there is no one there to experience freedom, or to be enlightened. I don't see it so black and white, though.

In further along awakening the individual consciousness still experiences it all. The conditioned identity one once believed was 'me' has faded away but there is definitely experiencing going on as well as unique expressions of what is universal and unidentifiable. I see no need to attempt to resolve this paradox.

Clinging to any ideas, including those regarding who is or isn't free, are in the way of the wide openness of freedom. In fact, I see nothing else in the way of becoming free except how we hold on and resist in the mind.


Xan

Perhaps xan there are varying degrees of one's personality that is present within hightened states of awareness . One may relate to there being an I that is present or one may not . The one that 'is' however 'is' present . If one is of the mind then one's self may be conscious of one's self awareness .

How much of one that is in awareness and of what could vary .

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by everything

You're free as soon as you realize you're free.

Hi everything .

Whom realizes your free would you say?

x daz x