The practical side of religious/spiritual beliefs

I know in my heart that what TZU said is correct. At least for my journey. And what he said can leak science(Quantum Physics) with spirituality, and if science can prove it, then the general public will start believing in spirituality. Then there will be a new Collective Conscious taking place. It just MIGHT be, just a thought, that that will be the start of the new age of consciousness. What the Mayans predicted and other ancient cultures. I think that science will be the key to start the new age consciousness movement. That's just me though. That's what I have a gut instinct on. If not science, then through the war and government protests people that people will get fed up with the way our world has been, and THAT might open the door the the new shift in consciousness. My visions show me this:

As science knows right now, the Universe is expanding at a faster rate than ever before. Like Inertia if you'd like a science explanation for it. And when objects move faster the energy level(frequency, vibration) speeds up, then so does the vibration of the INDIVIDUAL PERSON. With a higher vibration you start to feel the love, see the truth. Remember the Wisdom. People on a worldwide level will start awakening. Evolution will happen one way or another. My visions show that this is part of the Universal plan. I think other lifeforms in Galaxies that are further ahead of us in time are already more evolved. Just like in the Early Universe, the Earth was hot and molten. Now it has cooled. Then life forms started popping up. I think our last evolutionary step was that of technology. And it still will be. But I think this is what the mayans predicted by looking at the stars. The Cosmos tell a story. We are PART of it. Not just the story, but the Universe. I think this is part of the Cosmic plan. I think that Everything That Was, Everything that Is, and Everything That Ever Will Be has already happened. How is that -possible? In the eternal present moment of Now. I think everything was created in one Glorious moment. Now how this doesn't interfere with free will can be explained with what TZU said. It can be explained in Quantum ?Physics. In the past I have always said that Quantum Physics is the closest to the truth than any other science field, yet didn't know why I said it. Now I do. Everything is Consciousness, and we Create Consciousness. So we are Creating the Universe as time goes on, and we ARE THE SOURCE. So THE SOURCE KNOWS that Everything that was, is, and ever will be has already happened. Evolution is a process of Remembering. Not new stuff. But Remembering. And that fits PERFECTLY with the BIG BANG, because we knew this in the moment the Universe was created. We forgot, and evolution is a process of remembering. I remember this.

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..



we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. from this 'source' we are manifested, through evolution, so that source can experience its own existence.. this is delightfully simple and straightforward, and unites science and mysticism.. it is the variations of stories and beliefs about this 'source' that incite conflict, but.. it is also possible to entertain those same stories and beliefs with a fundamental understanding that we are that source, in multiplicity.. THEN, it is possible to let go of conflict, when we see and experience our existence as One AND Many..

Be well..

we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. This source is a product from the true source. Energy can only be aware of its current state, not its origin or destination, although these are used to evaluate the present awareness.

that we are that source, in multiplicity.. We are from source, but are not source

Question: Why are we in multiplicity?

Moke Wrote: "We forgot, and evolution is a process of remembering. I remember this." What is the purpose of forgetting Moke?

We forgot so we can remember :P

Originally Posted by moke64916

I know in my heart that what TZU said is correct. At least for my journey. And what he said can leak science(Quantum Physics) with spirituality, and if science can prove it, then the general public will start believing in spirituality. Then there will be a new Collective Conscious taking place. It just MIGHT be, just a thought, that that will be the start of the new age of consciousness. What the Mayans predicted and other ancient cultures. I think that science will be the key to start the new age consciousness movement. That's just me though. That's what I have a gut instinct on. If not science, then through the war and government protests people that people will get fed up with the way our world has been, and THAT might open the door the the new shift in consciousness. My visions show me this:

As science knows right now, the Universe is expanding at a faster rate than ever before. Like Inertia if you'd like a science explanation for it. And when objects move faster the energy level(frequency, vibration) speeds up, then so does the vibration of the INDIVIDUAL PERSON. With a higher vibration you start to feel the love, see the truth. Remember the Wisdom. People on a worldwide level will start awakening. Evolution will happen one way or another. My visions show that this is part of the Universal plan. I think other lifeforms in Galaxies that are further ahead of us in time are already more evolved. Just like in the Early Universe, the Earth was hot and molten. Now it has cooled. Then life forms started popping up. I think our last evolutionary step was that of technology. And it still will be. But I think this is what the mayans predicted by looking at the stars. The Cosmos tell a story. We are PART of it. Not just the story, but the Universe. I think this is part of the Cosmic plan. I think that Everything That Was, Everything that Is, and Everything That Ever Will Be has already happened. How is that -possible? In the eternal present moment of Now. I think everything was created in one Glorious moment. Now how this doesn't interfere with free will can be explained with what TZU said. It can be explained in Quantum ?Physics. In the past I have always said that Quantum Physics is the closest to the truth than any other science field, yet didn't know why I said it. Now I do. Everything is Consciousness, and we Create Consciousness. So we are Creating the Universe as time goes on, and we ARE THE SOURCE. So THE SOURCE KNOWS that Everything that was, is, and ever will be has already happened. Evolution is a process of Remembering. Not new stuff. But Remembering. And that fits PERFECTLY with the BIG BANG, because we knew this in the moment the Universe was created. We forgot, and evolution is a process of remembering. I remember this.

This new age has already begun. It will officially begin on December 21st, 2012 *dodges projectiles being thrown*

We are leading up to this now, which is why many are awakening. And I'm going to say that the simple change in frequency will cause this shift, human activity, scientific discoveries and protests will be the product of this. Even that certain institutions and products of our recent past will simply fall away in the light of the new dawn ;)

The universe expands at levels billions of times faster than the speed of light, it always has since the Beginning. It is our solar system, and all of the other solar systems in the Milky way which are speeding up at this time, this is why we are evolving. The frequency shift is coming from the galactic core, spreading outwards in waves through the body of the galaxy, leading to a heightened leap in our evolution.

This is adding to, not taking away from what you have said here, to clarify my intention.

Love this; "The Cosmos tell a stroy. We are Part of It" - Moke

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. This source is a product from the true source. Energy can only be aware of its current state, not its origin or destination, although these are used to evaluate the present awareness.

that we are that source, in multiplicity.. We are from source, but are not source

Question: Why are we in multiplicity?

Yet The Source of the Universe is equal to The Source, We are One. We are The Source and The Source is Us.

Originally Posted by Enlightener

This new age has already begun. It will officially begin on December 21st, 2012 *dodges projectiles being thrown*

We are leading up to this now, which is why many are awakening. And I'm going to say that the simple change in frequency will cause this shift, human activity, scientific discoveries and protests will be the product of this. Even that certain institutions and products of our recent past will simply fall away in the light of the new dawn ;)

The universe expands at levels billions of times faster than the speed of light, it always has since the Beginning. It is our solar system, and all of the other solar systems in the Milky way which are speeding up at this time, this is why we are evolving. The frequency shift is coming from the galactic core, spreading outwards in waves through the body of the galaxy, leading to a heightened leap in our evolution.

This is adding to, not taking away from what you have said here, to clarify my intention.

Love this; "The Cosmos tell a stroy. We are Part of It" - Moke

We share the same truths.

Greetings..

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. This source is a product from the true source. Energy can only be aware of its current state, not its origin or destination, although these are used to evaluate the present awareness.

If you are energy, and you are, and you believe energy cannot be aware of its origin, which you state,.. how then, can you reference that which you cannot be aware of? Consistency is important.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

that we are that source, in multiplicity.. We are from source, but are not source

Source the origin, all else is that.. do you understand the concept of 'Source'?

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

Question: Why are we in multiplicity?

Source, a self aware Singularity, the origin.. cannot experience anything, or have any understanding other than "I AM" (it's the origin, a Singularity).. and, 'curiosity', the Prime Motivator, asks.. "What AM I"? we/us/Life are Source in multiplicity, answering the question, "What AM I"? Source sets itself apart from itself in multiplicity, such that it can experience itself as itself through we/us/Life.. One AND Many simultaneously..

Be well..

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

Rubbish, have you ever been in a group of people who totally support you? or, if you are fortunate enough to have deveoped a supporting relationship with your mother, how her support allows you freedom to be who you are?

lol and what about the ones that do not want to be part of your "unity" - that dont believe as you want them to believe??

how about stop trying to get all of mankind to act a certain way i.e. how you individually think all mankind should act - as this is what is actually causing most of the problems in the world?? maybe concentrate on the relationships of your own family? if everyone did that we would be fine.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

Don't be naieve. 2000 years ago the world was dominated by religion and ritual, now the world is starting to be dominated by the spiritual movement, the new age, the search for who am I? Now it is clear that this NEW movement is still in general acting religiously, IE: believing in ritual, looking for reward etc, however it is still a MAJOR shift in conscious state. Everything that exists in this world, what do you think they are? Do you think that technology is some arbitrary happening? If you understand that the development of consciousness, or spiritual states is the development of UNITY, of mutual support, of living in harmony with nature.

what utter rott. the world 2000 years ago was dominated by... wait for it.... politics just as it is now. we eat, we drink, breathe, we go to work - we have families - we have beliefs. that is same for thousands of years.

there is no "development of conciousness" that has happened since mankind became conious. once you understand that - then you will realise what you are actually proposing isn't about spirituality but religion.

there is not "major shift" in conciousness - when people say this i think they sometimes think it a major evolutionary advance but its just ridiculous - there is just different beliefs held by people - its that simple.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

When there are no more fossil fuels, do you think humanity will be the same? If Tsunamis become a seasonal norm do you think people will continue to build at sea level? Do you think that the obsession of communication seen in our young people has no purpose behind it??

when fossil fuels run out- yes mankind will be the same. why would they be different? - beliefs may change though.

obsession of communication? what the hell are you on about? you talk as if young people of the past didnt communicate.....

indeed - technology has made it easier to communicate. thats not a shift in conciousness, or a shift in mankind. its a shift in society - just as there has been many shifts in society - as mankind chnages thier beliefs.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

It doesn't make sense to you and therfore you perceive it as fake. If you view the statement from the prespective that reason is dominated by the senses, it can only ever reveal the present state, it is totally incapable of revealing the next step, or spiritual state. True you can use the past to evaluate the present to focus on the future direction, but to beleive that reason is truth is the fantasy. Go beyond the idea that you are in control of your destiny, whilst at the same time know that everything depends on your efforts to define your destiny, then reason can be used, the reason here is called "Above reason".

and yet by you understanding it - you have applied reason to it. so is it above reason or not?

wait a minute for a second. if there is not reason behind something - then you cant understand it. understanding comes from reasoning. now are you suggesting that something you cant apply reason to - is actually more truthful than something you can apply reason to?

you are just not making a logical argument. reason is not truth, reason is the method of how we believe in truth - and by doing so we can communicate it.

if reason is not logical - then it suggests fakery.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

There is a evolutionary process. We have moved in form from Gas, to liquid to solid, to vegetative to animal to human. Until humans arrived everything is instinctual, there is no right or wrong, good or evil, life is simply following a set of instructions.

instructions? - are you bringing your individual beliefs into it?

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

The term human here does NOT refer to homeo sapian, the species, Human refers to the desire for spirituality which lies in potential within the human frame. The majority of human behaviour is very much in the animate, instinctual level.

lol and why do you think "spirituality" is more important or closer to the source than instincts? what is the logic behind the belief?

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

What you describe above is instinctual development based on natures laws. this is called the 'posterior' of spirituality. This is where you get forced from behind to change, there is no conscious volition here, only environmental influence..

and believing you are not influenced by environment - is ignoring reality.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

there is no altruism in the still, vegatative and animate levels of life, only in the human is there altruistic potential.

again what utter rott with no logical foundation. you just need to look at the many examples in nature to see why this statement is false.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

To use history to explain spirituality again depends on the base understanding of what constitutes spirituality. Without this understanding, reviewing history will give you nothing but anthropology.

the lesson you take - whether they were meant at the time or not - can be applied to your own existence.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

But what is life? Without the desire for spirituality then you are in instinctual life, this is the level of sleeping, enjoy life to the max, this is indeed the purpose of creation, to be filled with absolute pleasure continously..

the desire for spirituality is not needed for life - and life doesnt need to be instinctual without it. you are just plain adding things onto the definition of spirituality.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

Freedom begins when you start to realise you are a robot.

ridiculous.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

We cannot judge ourselves based on historical development without an understanding of spiritual purpose; as TJL wrote; "it is also possible to entertain those same stories and beliefs with a fundamental understanding"

in terms of your own spirituality the lessons you take from understanding history is the important bit - not the meaning at the time.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

President Obama is talking of UNITY, of a global society, this is only because he is being FORCED into this direction. This is still instinctual, however it also reveals the spiritual direction that humanity is taking.

LOL - again pick up a history book. NOTHING has changed - the romans were trying to make a global society.

no shift in conciousness - just different beliefs.

Originally Posted by The Eagle

lol and what about the ones that do not want to be part of your "unity" - that dont believe as you want them to believe??

how about stop trying to get all of mankind to act a certain way i.e. how you individually think all mankind should act - as this is what is actually causing most of the problems in the world?? maybe concentrate on the relationships of your own family? if everyone did that we would be fine.



what utter rott. the world 2000 years ago was dominated by... wait for it.... politics just as it is now. we eat, we drink, breathe, we go to work - we have families - we have beliefs. that is same for thousands of years.

there is no "development of conciousness" that has happened since mankind became conious. once you understand that - then you will realise what you are actually proposing isn't about spirituality but religion.

there is not "major shift" in conciousness - when people say this i think they sometimes think it a major evolutionary advance but its just ridiculous - there is just different beliefs held by people - its that simple.



when fossil fuels run out- yes mankind will be the same. why would they be different? - beliefs may change though.

obsession of communication? what the hell are you on about? you talk as if young people of the past didnt communicate.....

indeed - technology has made it easier to communicate. thats not a shift in conciousness, or a shift in mankind. its a shift in society - just as there has been many shifts in society - as mankind chnages thier beliefs.



and yet by you understanding it - you have applied reason to it. so is it above reason or not?

wait a minute for a second. if there is not reason behind something - then you cant understand it. understanding comes from reasoning. now are you suggesting that something you cant apply reason to - is actually more truthful than something you can apply reason to?

you are just not making a logical argument. reason is not truth, reason is the method of how we believe in truth - and by doing so we can communicate it.

if reason is not logical - then it suggests fakery.



instructions? - are you bringing your individual beliefs into it?



lol and why do you think "spirituality" is more important or closer to the source than instincts? what is the logic behind the belief?



and believing you are not influenced by environment - is ignoring reality.



again what utter rott with no logical foundation. you just need to look at the many examples in nature to see why this statement is false.



the lesson you take - whether they were meant at the time or not - can be applied to your own existence.



the desire for spirituality is not needed for life - and life doesnt need to be instinctual without it. you are just plain adding things onto the definition of spirituality.



ridiculous.



in terms of your own spirituality the lessons you take from understanding history is the important bit - not the meaning at the time.



LOL - again pick up a history book. NOTHING has changed - the romans were trying to make a global society.

no shift in conciousness - just different beliefs.

So tell me how it is then?
You tell me what spirituality is?
You tell me why differing beliefs do not constitue a change of consciousness?
You tell my why the understanding that the world is round instead of flat does not represent a change in spiritual degree in regrd to human consciousness?
As I am thinking we are so far apart that the continued conversation is a waste of time.

One of the reasons for saying this is your comment "and believing you are not influenced by environment - is ignoring reality." For you to say this shows me you have not read, or comprehended anything i have said.
For example, concentrating on relationships in families, which you point out to be the solution to the worlds problems are directly related to environmental conditioning ...
It was OK to beat children.
It was OK to beat wives.
It was OK to subbordinate another race.
It is OK to murder for the sake of world order ......... At present this is in our world so it must be ok, but soon it will be as the above ... It was OK.

The robot part of the humanity follows this conditioning, the awake part of humanity brings spiritual concepts/light into the world to manifest this conditioning.

I have the greatest respect for those of us who are able to bring directly into family, loving altruitsic compassion, for development is surely through our children ...... If this is your path, so be it.

What confuses me is why considering the whole world to be a family is so distant from your imagination? Why you seem to consider it as forcing? as creating problems? as religion?
Mankind is already in a system of social justice, of mutual support, of integrality, it is just corrupt. here lies the correction for all of us.
mankind is already forced to think in certain ways, to act in certain ways, to eat, drink, have families in certain ways.
All I am suggesting is that we see the whole world as our family, would you give up your life for your child? Would you give up your cup of coffee for another child in Africa? or Afhganistan? or even around the corner?

There are reasons why we feel the way we do for family and why and how we feel about others, about strangers .......... This reason is the tool that brings one the potential of entering in a spiritual existence .... Do you know what it is? Do you know why you cannot sense the suffering of others in the world? Do you know why you cant even sense what your own body does internally?

You said: "lol and what about the ones that do not want to be part of your "unity" - that dont believe as you want them to believe??"

So tell me about these people? For me these people simply have to see the benefit of living in a world that supports each and everyone, they have to see a profit in it, and when they do, there will be no coercion. It is like you say just a change of belief.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania
It doesn't make sense to you and therfore you perceive it as fake. If you view the statement from the prespective that reason is dominated by the senses, it can only ever reveal the present state, it is totally incapable of revealing the next step, or spiritual state. True you can use the past to evaluate the present to focus on the future direction, but to beleive that reason is truth is the fantasy. Go beyond the idea that you are in control of your destiny, whilst at the same time know that everything depends on your efforts to define your destiny, then reason can be used, the reason here is called "Above reason".


and yet by you understanding it - you have applied reason to it. so is it above reason or not? If you are not in a state of spirituality, which is defined as acts of bestowal, then you are unable to use feeling to accurately assess the current state. It is here that reason can be applied, reason here means imagination. One imagines a connected state, that one is bestowing, this is where a group is essential as you cannot play this game on your own. it is through this playing that ones beliefs, to use your terminology, change, although it is more than belief it is desire.

wait a minute for a second. if there is not reason behind something - then you cant understand it. understanding comes from reasoning. In spirituality understanding does not come from reasoning, understanding is a result of an action. now are you suggesting that something you cant apply reason to - is actually more truthful than something you can apply reason to? What i am suggesting is that reason only describes what you know. I am also suggesting that what you know, in this world, is a fantasy, and if you wish to know about spirituality, what is considered a true reality, then you must go above reason to reveal it. Of course it exists in its entirety, it is just veiled, and as you become similar to it, so then does it reveal itself directly within yourself, then what was once beyond reason, now becomes knowledge, and immediately the next state is again beyond your reason

you are just not making a logical argument. reason is not truth, reason is the method of how we believe in truth - and by doing so we can communicate it. reason is a method applied either to your own needs or to the needs of the collective, If reason is focused on your own needs then my definition it is repelled from sensing spirituality as spirituality is wholeness.
We only sense within the vessel that we create to be able to feel what fills it.

if reason is not logical - then it suggests fakery. I never siad reason wasn't logical