The practical side of religious/spiritual beliefs

TJL - that doesn't cut it.
I have no more agenda than you, and I state as clearly as I am able, if there is anything specific that i can elaborate on to alleviate your opinion of manipulation you just have to ask, asking I prefer, I'm a bit over your need to preach and project.

As for good and bad, well there are many ways to look at this. Suffice is to say, that 'just is' does not qualify anything.
And as for always connected to source ........ So what connects to source, are you one of these spiritual dudes who thinks everything is spiritual?

And one last thing, I do appreciate your comments, and hopefully gain some insights, but to rest on attack as a means of communication, lose it. It doesnt work, except to creat conflict.

Greetings..

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

TJL - that doesn't cut it.
I have no more agenda than you, and I state as clearly as I am able, if there is anything specific that i can elaborate on to alleviate your opinion of manipulation you just have to ask, asking I prefer, I'm a bit over your need to preach and project.

As for good and bad, well there are many ways to look at this. Suffice is to say, that 'just is' does not qualify anything.
And as for always connected to source ........ So what connects to source, are you one of these spiritual dudes who thinks everything is spiritual?

And one last thing, I do appreciate your comments, and hopefully gain some insights, but to rest on attack as a means of communication, lose it. It doesnt work, except to creat conflict.

Hi Paul: Gloss it over and walk away.. or.. get out of your own way, and 'look' at yourself with clarity..

I'm not "one of these spiritual dudes" that just accepts whatever is the flavor of the day, i pay attention to what actually works.. we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. from this 'source' we are manifested, through evolution, so that source can experience its own existence.. this is delightfully simple and straightforward, and unites science and mysticism.. it is the variations of stories and beliefs about this 'source' that incite conflict, but.. it is also possible to entertain those same stories and beliefs with a fundamental understanding that we are that source, in multiplicity.. THEN, it is possible to let go of conflict, when we see and experience our existence as One AND Many..

Be well..

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

This last statement seems to imply a lack of understanding of the development of consciousness.

you do not talk for the whole - you speak for you - for your conciousness.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

We as a whole are incapable of deciding on destruction. The question is, how many humans will it take to learn about UNITY. 7 Billion or 100,000?

lol - well for unity you will need every single person to learn about it, not just to learn about it -to live it - and then for that to continue you are not allowing any of your children believe anything different. - sounds like a dogmantic religion doesn't it?

just takes one person to stand against what you believe and you have failed for the reach of unity. think about it.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

the world is connecting in a way that it never has

other than technology - no its not. we are not doing anything different to people that lived 2000+ years ago. dont think different, dont act particulaly different.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

The identification of individuality is from the perspective of the individual and is only of benefit to the individual to correct all within themselves that opposses respect of other individuals that prevents that individual from bonding with others..People don't have individual spirituality, this definition is in direct opposition to what spirituality actually is. Spirituality is not an individuals view of life.

is thats what you personally think?

you seem to be using spirituality term in place of the word religion.

spirituality is to do with spirit - your spirit is not my spirit.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

We have judgments of others and ourselves, both are egoistic and require us to go beyond these, beyond reason to see the other as perfect.

what you said there doenst make sense. if you go beyond reason - you travel into fantasy or idealism. either way it is fake.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

Where do you think they came from?

it came from people realising what they need to survive in a practical sense. these wants - these desires is what spirituality is based on. it is derived very much so from an individuals perspective. and it also includes all actions of mankind - war/peace. love/hate.

if spirituality is not the most important thing for you, then what is?[/quote]

life.

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

There are two sides here. One: We fall asleep in complacency, and delude ourselves. and Two: We wake up.
I guess the accepting bit that you talk about can contain the reality that we have no power to change anything on our own so whats the point of getting heated about it. However what is the motivation in accepting conflict for example?

and you think you are not deluding yourself by thinking unity is important?

motivation? how about because thats how life is. it is conflict - otherwise we would all be robots.

do you want to sleep and be a robot - or wake up and have an opinion?

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

To examine history may be of interest, but for me the basic premises on which history is examined in regards to discovering spirituality is usually flawed. They are determined through reason and factual calculations of mans psychology, beliefs etc. Without an understanding of the purpose, process and completion of human consciousness one cannot determine anything.

simple as - we can learn from the past, learn what has worked, what has not. we can form an opinion of why things have worked and why things have not. we use these opinions to judge ourselves and apply this to our lives - to help guide us to the future.

agan when understanding where "spirituality" actually came from - we can see how it has developled - why it has gone in the directions it has. otherwise you ignore 30,000+ years of human spirituality - you ignore how many billions of people living before you and their opinions on life and spirituality. you dont think its an important thing to consider??

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Hi Paul: Gloss it over and walk away.. or.. get out of your own way, and 'look' at yourself with clarity..

I'm not "one of these spiritual dudes" that just accepts whatever is the flavor of the day, i pay attention to what actually works.. we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. from this 'source' we are manifested, through evolution, so that source can experience its own existence.. this is delightfully simple and straightforward, and unites science and mysticism.. it is the variations of stories and beliefs about this 'source' that incite conflict, but.. it is also possible to entertain those same stories and beliefs with a fundamental understanding that we are that source, in multiplicity.. THEN, it is possible to let go of conflict, when we see and experience our existence as One AND Many..

Be well..

Now thats what I'm talking about TJL, I knew you had it in you ....... Thankyou

[BlueSky]

Paul,

Source has a purpose to experience its own existence?

How come i don't know that....................lol

Greetings..

Originally Posted by PaulChapmanTasmania

Now thats what I'm talking about TJL, I knew you had it in you ....... Thankyou

Yes.. well.. this is exactly what i am talking about, too.. setting yourself up as the authority.. really, neither my approval nor your approval of anyone's posts matter, at all.. you do this frequently, the rally 'round 'me' theme, a basic group control technique.. why didn't you know i had it in me, Paul? this is what i post consistently..

Be well..

Greetings..

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

Paul,

Source has a purpose to experience its own existence?

How come i don't know that....................lol

Hi James: You do..

Be well..

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Hi Paul: Gloss it over and walk away.. or.. get out of your own way, and 'look' at yourself with clarity..

I'm not "one of these spiritual dudes" that just accepts whatever is the flavor of the day, i pay attention to what actually works.. we are Energy, and Energy is conscious and aware, and.. 'that' is source.. from this 'source' we are manifested, through evolution, so that source can experience its own existence.. this is delightfully simple and straightforward, and unites science and mysticism.. it is the variations of stories and beliefs about this 'source' that incite conflict, but.. it is also possible to entertain those same stories and beliefs with a fundamental understanding that we are that source, in multiplicity.. THEN, it is possible to let go of conflict, when we see and experience our existence as One AND Many..

Be well..

Couldn't agree more with you Tzu. You said it.

Originally Posted by Baile

As was spirituality and all the new-age doctrine people believe in.

Spirituality (as you are using the term here) is the uncovering of life on another level. 'New Age' is the philosophy, and the movement based around this, although many create their own version of what should be done to progress, not necessarily being honest seekers themselves, all in all, this movement has brought a lot of needed soothing to world.

Originally Posted by The Eagle

lol - well for unity you will need every single person to learn about it, not just to learn about it -to live it - This is true and then for that to continue you are not allowing any of your children believe anything different. Rubbish, have you ever been in a group of people who totally support you? or, if you are fortunate enough to have deveoped a supporting relationship with your mother, how her support allows you freedom to be who you are? - sounds like a dogmantic religion doesn't it? to you it does.

just takes one person to stand against what you believe and you have failed for the reach of unity. think about it. It is not difficult to see the effect that environment has on the individual, mutual support can be an environmental basis that underpins all facets of education/society.
After all this level of unity IS SPIRITUALITY, it already exists as source, it already includes all, and is the true existence, what is experienced here in this corproeal world, the idea of individuality, of viewing the world from the perspective of the individual being central and everything else is outside, out there, beyond the self, is simply a tool to realise the disconnection of spirituality in this world.

other than technology - no its not. we are not doing anything different to people that lived 2000+ years ago. dont think different, dont act particulaly different. Don't be naieve. 2000 years ago the world was dominated by religion and ritual, now the world is starting to be dominated by the spiritual movement, the new age, the search for who am I? Now it is clear that this NEW movement is still in general acting religiously, IE: believing in ritual, looking for reward etc, however it is still a MAJOR shift in conscious state. Everything that exists in this world, what do you think they are? Do you think that technology is some arbitrary happening? If you understand that the development of consciousness, or spiritual states is the development of UNITY, of mutual support, of living in harmony with nature.
When there are no more fossil fuels, do you think humanity will be the same?
If Tsunamis become a seasonal norm do you think people will continue to build at sea level? Do you think that the obsession of communication seen in our young people has no purpose behind it?


is thats what you personally think?

you seem to be using spirituality term in place of the word religion. Define this assumption.

spirituality is to do with spirit - your spirit is not my spirit. Define spirit? Or is that an individual thing as well, lol.

what you said there doenst make sense. if you go beyond reason - you travel into fantasy or idealism. either way it is fake. It doesn't make sense to you and therfore you perceive it as fake. If you view the statement from the prespective that reason is dominated by the senses, it can only ever reveal the present state, it is totally incapable of revealing the next step, or spiritual state. True you can use the past to evaluate the present to focus on the future direction, but to beleive that reason is truth is the fantasy. Go beyond the idea that you are in control of your destiny, whilst at the same time know that everything depends on your efforts to define your destiny, then reason can be used, the reason here is called "Above reason".


it came from people realising what they need to survive in a practical sense. these wants - these desires is what spirituality is based on. it is derived very much so from an individuals perspective. and it also includes all actions of mankind - war/peace. love/hate. There is a evolutionary process. We have moved in form from Gas, to liquid to solid, to vegetative to animal to human. Until humans arrived everything is instinctual, there is no right or wrong, good or evil, life is simply following a set of instructions.

The term human here does NOT refer to homeo sapian, the species, Human refers to the desire for spirituality which lies in potential within the human frame. The majority of human behaviour is very much in the animate, instinctual level.

What you describe above is instinctual development based on natures laws. this is called the 'posterior' of spirituality. This is where you get forced from behind to change, there is no conscious volition here, only environmental influence.

there is no altruism in the still, vegatative and animate levels of life, only in the human is there altruistic potential.

To use history to explain spirituality again depends on the base understanding of what constitutes spirituality. Without this understanding, reviewing history will give you nothing but anthropology.

if spirituality is not the most important thing for you, then what is?

life. But what is life? Without the desire for spirituality then you are in instinctual life, this is the level of sleeping, enjoy life to the max, this is indeed the purpose of creation, to be filled with absolute pleasure continously. So fill yourself with the beauty and abundance of life, however without the desire to support and connect the entirety of humanity then you are just in this life for yourself and in this direction all pleasures that are received must become empty vessels. to be in spirituality has no direct outward demeanour in this world. The guy digging in the street outside your window is more than likely the guy in spirituality, he works to support the whole, he pays his taxes, feeds his family, goes on holiday, and all of his spare time, the time beyond making sure his corporeal life is satiated is devoted to spirituality. The time when he is addressing his corporeal needs his longing to be connected to his spiritual work underpins his entire day, so that when he comes to that place of spiritual study he comes with such a desire, such an emptiness that it becomes his constant thought, his entire day becomes a correction.

and you think you are not deluding yourself by thinking unity is important? What would you prefer in your neighbour hood? in your family? in your world?

motivation? how about because thats how life is. it is conflict - otherwise we would all be robots. we are robots who are programmed to think they are not, thats the joke.
Freedom begins when you start to realise you are a robot. When you discover that your reason and feelings are part of this program, and are instilled in this program for you to realise this fact.

I am comfortable, so i sit and enjoy, I am uncomfortable, now I must try and become comfortable again. life is programmed to find rest, and everything is focused on finding that rest. We cling to good and avert the bad

do you want to sleep and be a robot - or wake up and have an opinion? . Why is there this delusion that UNITY means no individuality?

Having an opinion does not make you awake. Intellectual Knowledge is not a spiritual desire, and until you enter into a spiritual state you are not awake. You are in the process of preparing yourself to be in spirituality

simple as - we can learn from the past, learn what has worked, what has not. we can form an opinion of why things have worked and why things have not. we use these opinions to judge ourselves and apply this to our lives - to help guide us to the future. We cannot judge ourselves based on historical development without an understanding of spiritual purpose; as TJL wrote; "it is also possible to entertain those same stories and beliefs with a fundamental understanding"

agan when understanding where "spirituality" actually came from - we can see how it has developled - why it has gone in the directions it has. otherwise you ignore 30,000+ years of human spirituality - you ignore how many billions of people living before you and their opinions on life and spirituality. you dont think its an important thing to consider??[/quote]

As I am sure you know, the current state, reveals the importance of any data received.
Again you cannnot comprehend where spirituality came from by anthropologically analysing history. This direction caters to the drive for self fulilment, it will reveal to the person who understands the development of consciousness/spirituality this fact.

President Obama is talking of UNITY, of a global society, this is only because he is being FORCED into this direction. This is still instinctual, however it also reveals the spiritual direction that humanity is taking.

In Chinese Medicine the body, its organs, its harmonising with the environmental conditions reveal a picture of what health is. Any small deviation from this norm is recognisable as an imbalance and can be rectified.
This is why this medicine is a preventative. It realigns the person in small steps from small deviations, this can only occur, because of the understanding of what wholeness/health/harmony is.
Until recently the western health system was designed on remedying illness within the individual, and this individual was separate from wholeness. The disease was the focus and the remedy sought to address this focus. There was no attention to environment, to emotional state, mental beliefs, foods ingested, exercise, etc. This approach reveals the individualistic approach to spirituality. Western medicine had no idea of the origin of a healthy whole organism and therefore was unable to develop appropriate forms of treatment to develop that whole, instead the pursuit of rapid relief medications without any need for the recipient to change become the nirvana.
Of course the above is just an example of how one can view the importance of understanding what spiritulity is, in order to be able to discern appropriate analysis from the symptoms that humanities evolution ha revealed.