What really makes a person a Christian?

[Morpheus]

Morpheus - I had a near death experience as I had open-heart surgery in 1994 for a congenital heart disease. I was put on life support for 4 hours and received paddles to jump start my heart. Funny thing is prior to the surgery I was an avid Catholic, but after the surgery I was a seeker of answers the Catholic church could no longer answer. I began a spiritual quest to find more answers on my own and started studying various faiths and philosophies. I don't know that I'm any better off now, but I'm wiser, that's for sure. I definitely, like you said, had a change of nature from what I was or where I was before.

Blackraven

Well, you don't relate there what you Experienced, if anything while you underwent surgery, and were unconscious to the world.

But of course, the Catholic's eschew the term, "Born Again", even though Peter states in His epistle concerning people of faith, that they are,
"Begotten Again".
People need Revelation and Experience, as much as academic knowledge.

Have you visited www.nderf.org?

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

While I can see where you're going with that, I don't think it's the full picture. 1 + 1 = 2. That's a small sample of truth. But if you tell me that, and I disagree and argue that it's 3, me not believing doesn't change the truth of the matter. The truth is still 2. Sure, the truth to me is 3 (but that is a lie pretending to be truth). The real truth, OUT THERE beyond my own belief is still 2.

Paix

I like this, we could say that 1+1=2 equals 5 or whatever number you have because there are 5 characters, and don't get me wrong, the most plausible answer by using addition is two. Speaking of additions when we look at:

I John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

We can also note that the first Christians had something in common, fellowship as in:

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

Now when taking things into account, the most plausible interpretation of Scripture such as in:

John 17:23
I in them and you in me, athat they may become perfectly one, bso that the world may know that you sent me and cloved them even as dyou loved me.

becomes “complete unity” referring to the 1--ness that Christians experience in true fellowship, 1--ness with one another, with Christ and with the Father. Just as the Father is in Jesus, so is Jesus in us, and we have unity with one another because of the uniqueness of that relationship.

Now which is the most plausible interpretation given the speech and behavior of early Christians? After all they were the first and true Christians that met and had fellowship with one another, knowing, that Christian fellowship can only occur within the body of Christ.

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well, you don't relate there what you Experienced, if anything while you underwent surgery, and were unconscious to the world.

But of course, the Catholic's eschew the term, "Born Again", even though Peter states in His epistle concerning people of faith, that they are,
"Begotten Again".
People need Revelation and Experience, as much as academic knowledge.

Have you visited www.nderf.org?

Morpheus - Interesting website. I just visited it. Read through a bit, but will go back and hang out there more. I have talked about what I experienced during my surgery before on another thread so I didn't want to be redundant. I floated above the surgical team basically and hovered at the ceiling level and was met by an angelic figure who took my hand and flew with me into bright light. That's all my conscious has allowed me to remember. After waking up in the ICU I squeezed my husband's hand 3 times to signal to him that I was alright. We agreed upon it prior to surgery and so it was the first thing I did as I couldn't talk. After surgery I was inspired to paint a woman dancer with an angel lifting her off the floor. Upon completing the painting I signed up for my first dance class and performed on stage, knowing I couldn't fall because my angel would be there to lift me up. I know this all might sound silly, but even though I can't remember what the angel was doing with me in the operating room, I believe she was telling me to go back and do things I had always wanted to do. Life changed for me drastically after that.

Blackraven

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Dilchannan

Good Morning Black Raven,

I was baptized as an infant, as the Catholic Religion usually does. I had no input into whether or not I wanted to, nor was I able to confess with my mouth or believe in my heart..I was a month old. As a born again Christian, I was an adult, I chose, I confess with my mouth and believe with all my heart in our Lord and Savior. As a born again Christian, when you are baptized it is a symbolic death, death of the old. You are born again with a new heart, and the Holy Spirit.

Much love and peace to you..

Dilchannan - So in your case it was a re-baptism made by choice as an adult, thus born again. Gotcha. Thank you.

Blackraven

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

May I jump in?
I feel your authentic curiousity, Blackraven.
And who wouldn't be curious????
You witnessed a regular baptism - the water kind, btw.

The "Born Again" thing is different...and is quite the life changing event.

It doesn't have to be in a church - though being an ex-Catholic I did go
up to the front at a Charismatic Church and was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" - the eve after I received a healing at the same church.
( They were having a 5 day Bible Conference and a friend dragged me
there at 7 pm when I was too tired to go.
It wasn't til 9:45 pm they did these ''altar calls''!
By then I was a lightbulb of energy!)

I still do not know what baptism in the Holy Spirit really is - but I was actually "slain in the Spirit".
And now Speak in Tongues even!!!

I think there are many things that could confuse you now, right?

I believe - tho this is no definition - that when you have
a Cosmic Consciousness experience - that is a big part of being born again.

Although, I have had many CC experiences my whole life - that
actual Baptism in the Holy Spirit -changed things dramatically ... I must say.
Weird.
I really do not know why... but, wow.

But, I can say I am a Born Again Christian...however, I also love Krishna
and learn from the whole Crew of Masters and teachers and yogis.

Imagine, your awareness entering another dimension of sorts
where you "see"
all is not physical - not intellectually ---you experience the spiritual workings behind this stage that we are players on - that could be considered a possible
re-birthing of sorts.

Some may disagree - I'm not an authority.

MH - So glad you jumped in. Your experience sounds like an "aha moment" when you go from seeing in only black and white to color for the first time!

Blackraven

Originally Posted by blackraven

Dilchannan - So in your case it was a re-baptism made by choice as an adult, thus born again. Gotcha. Thank you.

Blackraven

Only those who consciously choose Jesus Christ to be Lord over their lives have salvation.

I was baptized as a very young child, so young in fact I didn't have any recollection of it, but later decided to be baptized again, but I don't think that it matters, because at that point it is just an outward display of salvation, something that already had occurred. But I think that one day I will be baptized again....

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Only those who consciously choose the Jesus Christ to be Lord over their lives have salvation.

I was baptized as a very young child, so young in fact I didn't have any recollection of it, but later decided to be baptized again, but I don't think that it matters, because at that point it is just an outward display of salvation, something that already had occurred. But I think that one day I will be baptized again....

TeeHee - I actually don't understand why babies are baptized when they can't understand salvation through Jesus Christ. I've been told it's so "little babies get into Heaven in case they die when they are young." I don't know if there is any truth to that, if so it may have started back when the mortality rate for infants was much higher.

Blackraven

Originally Posted by blackraven

TeeHee - I actually don't understand why babies are baptized when they can't understand salvation through Jesus Christ. I've been told it's so "little babies get into Heaven in case they die when they are young." I don't know if there is any truth to that, if so it may have started back when the mortality rate for infants was much higher.

Blackraven

Seems more of a Catholic practice than Christian. It really isn't a biblical practice, but then again not everything the Catholic Church does is Biblical. Baptism is a public profession of faith in Christ and identification with Him. One must decide for themselves whether to believe in Jesus and be saved.

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Seems more of a Catholic practice than Christian. It really isn't a biblical practice, but then again not everything the Catholic Church does is Biblical. Baptism is a public profession of faith in Christ and identification with Him. One must decide for themselves whether to believe in Jesus and be saved.

I agree, it is a Catholic practice, and once baptized you must go through all the classes..The Catholic people really love their rituals. My reply in know way is said as any disrespect. There is a passage that states when we get so wrapped up in saying what church we follow, it just brings about division. I do not want that, i want to focus on what is important. Jesus Christ in people's lives.

I feel that if you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, confessing with your mouth, and believing with all your heart, than your there. Our works do not do it, Jesus Christ did all that was needed.

Yet once you are blessed with a new heart, and are filled with the light of God, you begin to change, you begin to see things differently. Your relationship with the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit deepens to such a deep level. When you choose to do God's will and not your own, oh the peace, the happiness, the LOVE is truly something words can not express. When you Place God above all things, and come to Him in worship and prayer, your whole life takes on another dimension. When you not only have faith, but act on it, miraculous things take place. Believing is seeing. Our Lord is Alive and Well today as he was yesterday, and tomorrow.

Peace to you..

[Morpheus]

BlackRaven:

Life changed for me drastically after that.

Well that statement, you will see if you spend time at the site, is rather common.
It reflects a, "Born Again" situation.

What did the Angel look like?

Baptism tends to be viewed as a mystical situation. Babies are baptised, and dedicated to God.
Catholics and Lutherans believe that they are then under the soveriegn of God.

Similarly, regarding the, "Eucharist", the bread and the wine are in a mystical sense turned into the body and blood of Christ.
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From the movie, "Oh Brother Where art Thou?"

Pete: Well I'll be a (Bleep) Delmar's been saved!

Delmar O'Donnell: Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed.
The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions.
It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward.

Ulysses Everett McGill: Delmar, what are you talking about? We've got bigger fish to fry.

Delmar O'Donnell: The preacher says all my sins is warshed away, including that Piggly Wiggly I knocked over in Yazoo.

Ulysses Everett McGill: I thought you said you was innocent of those charges?

Delmar O'Donnell: ...Well I was lyin'.

And the preacher says that that sin's been warshed away too.
Neither God nor man's got nothin' on me now ...C'mon in boys, the water is fine."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/quotes