Gospel of Thomas

[Amilius777]

Morpheus
Gospel of Thomas doesn't negate Christ's atonement. It just emphasizes another aspect of his teachings. You have the three that talk extensively about it. Why would all of them have to? John's Gospel on Christ's crucifixion is not nearly as important as his Resurrection and how physical his body was after it was resurrected.

The writer of John probably inspired by John himself wanted to make sure the teachings and life of Jesus wouldn't be dulled down to philopshical abstract contemplation like many of the Gnostics were becoming. To them Jesus didn't even have to be real.

Thomas was a true and original Gnostic. Someone who could understand and KNEW Jesus was a real person, his teacher and Master and savior but also someone like us we could emulate and follow but going within and finding that same Christ consciousness inside.


John was more about the Word made flesh, whereas Thomas was about the Word itself, the Christ Being. This being is a cosmic Son (SUN), an Universal consciousness of our One Father. We are all made of that, which is the Light. Even the darkest places in the universe have some ounce of light. Light and Love. But not all of us are as evolved as the person next to us. Jesus was a very highly exalted, evolved Entity whose personal identity and consciousness was tied and one with that Second aspect of the Trinity, the Christ consciousness, Divine within.


Matthew and Luke's Gospels praised and preached the coming of Christ in his incarnation through the Virgin Mary. The birth of this profound, history changing, avatar of the Source. Jesus was an avatar of the Christ Consciousness. Much higher than a saint or spiritual master. An ascended master who is given the role of representing God Himself in a visible Form,( in this case the physical form of Man), and imparting a direct highway back to the Father God for a specific Soul group, nation, or tribe because their spiritual evolution earned it.
The Divine and Human made one. This event is rare. Christianity should realize that not every Ascended Master or Prophet who founded a religion was an Avatar. But they took this "specialness" and used it to conquer and destroy other people of faiths during the Middle-Ages.

Only the purest, and highly evolved chosen by God can be made as such.


Thomas was trying to show his community that this cosmic Christ Consciousness is nestled within your very soul. You don't have to wait for him to come again in a helpless Babe, nor look to the night Sky to perceive his majestic beauty in all the Stars, but you can realize Him within you because all our higher Selves are made of that same essence. We are all on the deepest level; Love.
A Catholic Saint once said, "My deepest Self is God"

Paramhansa Yogananda says the sin of the New Age movement is saying "I am God", but what is more correct is this- "God has become Me", but only the truly self-realized, perfected, and spiritually advanced understand this state of consciousness, that's why they NEVER say it. Jesus could never say openly "I am God" , nor 'God is Me", instead he would say, "I Am". His humility and self-emptying nature was so God-like, that this is the nature of God. This is why Jesus was God's favorite or most favored agent sent to Earth. He was a being after his own heart. The wisest never explain it, and the ones who don't know it always speak it. Right now I don't understand it nor it's entirety and yet I am on here trying to explain it. It is futile.

Jesus' atonement is covered in Mark and Matthew. They were the more Jewish writers. Probably because of the community they wrote to. Not all the Apostles understood Jesus' message nor his actual Personhood. Only a few knew him to be the Second Person of the Trinity. They knew when he spoke of himself as "Christ", he meant the universal Savior, who came in the form of a personal messiah for this specific tribe of people.

Jesus' atonement was to cover for all the imbalance of violence and abuse from the last few millenium that gripped mankind. There are ancient spiritual teachings from other cultures in ancient times, Hindu, Egyptian, Native American. Their teachings as found in the Gita point to how sometimes one must destroy darkness with darkness as Krishna does. But man began to kill, murder, and destroy whenever he felt wronged, or morally superior, and it created an Ages of justified violence, animal sacrifice (even human), captial punishment for crimes that didn't match, etc. Jesus had to bring a gentle, all loving, all Forgiving, Selfless, sacrifical, (Piscean if you will with the Age that came), image of God that was forgotten. The Law of Karma was trumping our ancestors, and we forgot the Law of Grace, the HigherLaw of Love. Which is the oldest law because it is the one from our Eternal Oneness with the Father and each Other. When we, and all of us were One and the Same with God. That had to be channeled from the highest heavens into our Earth school through a all loving, pure and perfectly forgiving human Male, since males were the ones who dominated each other and continue to. We haven't fully brushed off this negative Thoughtform from our ancestors when the world delved into Scapegoating, Sacrificial Religion, and Distributive Justice.
We are now starting to slowly evolve out of it because it will no longer serve us.
Moses' Law was temporary. A great Master yes, but not a divine Incarnation of God like Jesus. His mission was to find a way to keep everyone in check under Karma and use the consciousness of the Time since so much of our world fell into this violent tribal mind, that his Laws reflected that period. But Jesus came to fulfill that Law and raise it up to a Higher Vibration


That is why he had to die. He had to take all of the effects of that law and the karma of all his people before and during his time and wash away it all so we could start with a New Beginning.


But the more you obsess over his sacrifice the more you get stuck in that mindset he was trying to dig us out of. "The scapegoating, paying your debts, God is angry with you, the Law needs Blood!!" Mentality.

It's a bit late for the Pope to make the Death Penalty completely unnecessary. It should have been so after Christ died. But human history is always so imbalanced. Because we are, inside. Very soon, he's gonna have to make it necessary again LOL. There are too many Lower-energy malovolent Souls who find a way to reincarnate into our world. That is why we have so many sociopaths, sickos, psychopaths on Earth doing horrible things and they refuse to change because they never knew what Love is nor have given it a chance and their only Hope is if the Angels were to find a way into their lives to expose them to the Light or love and transform them. God's Love is powerful enough to turn any dark force back into light because the feeling is too overwhelming powerful. It is who we are.

Sorry that was a bit of a tangent. But I havent responded on Spiritual Forums in so long LOL

[anthony c]

[quote=AHIYAH][quote=anthony c]

Originally Posted by AHIYAH

It's good to see that you are quite the inquisitive one. I use to be very inquisitive I still am but not as much. I happened to hear a Hebrew guy say to himself. Well Soul what is this that I do not understand ATM. You might want to try it and sit in silence and wait. Obviously you can go about your daily routine as usual and then you come upon one of those moments where your heart and mind are in sync as the soul and its like your inner eye has been opened and you are shown that answer. Oh and it can be a very strange experience. For me coming out of it was a shock because I wasn't prepared for what happened when that radiance left. Later I found out that it never leaves. Until one has this experience it hard to explain like most spiritual matters. In time I hope you get the answers you ask for.
Oh and it may take years for the answer to come or it could take five minutes.

Thanks AHIYAH

I will start doing it and hopefully gets some answers. I understand when you mean.

[AHIYAH]

[quote=anthony c][quote=AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by anthony c

Thanks AHIYAH

I will start doing it and hopefully gets some answers. I understand when you mean.

Just make sure you keep us posted on what your WaiRua/Spirit expresses. You might get something that you initially wouldn't agree with and it may be because of what you've been taught. There is no pressure and let that spiritual experience flow naturally. Happy return travels.

[davidmartin]

Amilius,
yeah Thomas doesn't negate the atonement
it is set before the Crucifixion concentrating on his teaching during his ministry
that he is Crucified is known and not denied in Thomas at all

the atonement doctrine gets all the attention!
The Holy Spirit also was given and you can't have the atonement without giving of the Holy Spirit

[django]

Thomas negates needing the Light from Jesus and supposes that we can supply our own light. This appeals to many people who will not bend their knee to a higher power than themselves and acknowledge that they are unable to supply their own light.

In the Jesus story it is only Jesus that can give the Light that is needed. Not by wisdom, knowledge, or personal power except that which follows His Light alone.

[Morpheus]

So, did I say that the gospel of Thomas, so called, negated the atoning work of Christ?

I stated that the reason why it wasn't included with the other books in the New Testament Bible was that it doesn't refer to His atoning work, as the four Gospels do, or as the epistles do either.

Doesn't refer to or address the early churches.

[anthony c]

[quote=AHIYAH][quote=anthony c]

Originally Posted by AHIYAH

Just make sure you keep us posted on what your WaiRua/Spirit expresses. You might get something that you initially wouldn't agree with and it may be because of what you've been taught. There is no pressure and let that spiritual experience flow naturally. Happy return travels.

Thanks and i will let you know.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

So, did I say that the gospel of Thomas, so called, negated the atoning work of Christ?

I stated that the reason why it wasn't included with the other books in the New Testament Bible was that it doesn't refer to His atoning work, as the four Gospels do, or as the epistles do either.

Doesn't refer to or address the early churches.

Morpheus but it does address other aspects of Christ's teaching. A big part of atonement is salvation and Thomas strongly proclaims salvation and the difference between them. it's powerful in that regard. the atonement stems from a belief in Christ as saviour. Thomas just doesn't talk about a specific atonement doctrine, that's it's only crime :)

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by django

Thomas negates needing the Light from Jesus and supposes that we can supply our own light. This appeals to many people who will not bend their knee to a higher power than themselves and acknowledge that they are unable to supply their own light.

In the Jesus story it is only Jesus that can give the Light that is needed. Not by wisdom, knowledge, or personal power except that which follows His Light alone.

i think your reading a new age understanding of it
sure, new age people have presented it as new age and many Christian's are just using that without checking it backs up new age claims, as do the gospels in the new testament in places, like Luke 'the kingdom of God is within you'.
but it's very different from the average new age teaching kit.
The only light in Thomas is from God. It agrees with John that we only receive what we are given. The problem is the adoption of it by some new agers that get all the attention. There is actually no dfifference between us!

[django]

I was just reading Thomas and I would like to put forward the verses one by one that bother me, perhaps others could comment with their opinions. Staring with:

(2) Jesus says:

(1) “The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds.
(2) And when he finds, he will be dismayed.
(3) And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished.
(4) And he will be king over the All.”