Natural vs. Man Made

[Light Seeker]

It's OK Gem...

All of it, even the stuff that is not OK. A thing i in evidence because it was meant to be in evidence, even the abominations.

A thing that is not meant to be , would not be , because it cannot be. The Horrors are the mantle upon which the miracles rest. The concept presented then.. If it is in existence it must be a product of creation /source/God/Nature (pick your own name for it)

If God/Source/Nature? Creation? are a natural thing.. That which is of it must surely be natural... Or is that me ? Oh and that which you say about the inevitable being a change is quiet correct, dosent make it any less inevitable though.

Man Made then is the same as Man wrought and a part of the process of creation which is ultimately a Natural process. Thankyou for indulging my personal grasp of the obvious.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Light Seeker

It's OK Gem...

All of it, even the stuff that is not OK.

That's just nonsense.

A thing i in evidence because it was meant to be in evidence, even the abominations.

It's in evidence because it is, and 'meant to be' is a made up story (man made).

A thing that is not meant to be , would not be , because it cannot be. The Horrors are the mantle upon which the miracles rest. The concept presented then.. If it is in existence it must be a product of creation /source/God/Nature (pick your own name for it)

"Must be" is assumed (man made).

If God/Source/Nature? Creation? are a natural thing.. That which is of it must surely be natural... Or is that me ? Oh and that which you say about the inevitable being a change is quiet correct, dosent make it any less inevitable though.

Man Made then is the same as Man wrought and a part of the process of creation which is ultimately a Natural process. Thank you for indulging my personal grasp of the obvious.

I didn't intend to indulge your 'personal grasp', or anything else, so don't thank me, I did nothing to be grateful for.

[Light Seeker]

It's in evidence because it is, and 'meant to be' is a made up story (man made).

Nah .. Guppy's and Platties along with Mollies are all live bearing Fishes. Those new born that don't into cover sharpish are eaten by their Parents .. Evil.. Some Spiders devouur their Mates after the act of well you know.. Evil.. The Dog that rejects the Runt. The Meteor that struck the Yukatan Peninsula, The Boxing Day Tsunami of 2004, The Krakatoa Cataclysm. Tunguska. The Toba Super Eruption that wiped out 80 % of all life on this planet 75, 000 years ago.

You cannot, simply cannot , attribute all ills to a breif span of Mankind on this little Rock.I accept that we have infested this planet , I accept that we have drained many resources of this planet to the point of exhaustion. I further accept that many species have become extinct at our hands. I accept that some of us do bad things. But to claim any of that to be un natural is quiet frankly a mis understanding of what natural is. Evolution continues apace and sooner or later we as humans will be doubtlessly an exibit in a fossil museum.


We know how this goes, because as life in action , we have always known.

Things die. New life ensues , in one form or another. The Human experience both from an individual point of view and collectively would appear at best , transitory. You are ccorrect though.... We SHOULD ought to be bothered and Care and nurture, simply because it is an act of creation of which we are a part..

I stumble , primarily upon the dichotomy presented though.. And be warned...this is going to be a feeble analogy which may through certain eyes be not seen as destruction. Yet I would argue we have all done it.


Examples include ... Ripping out the old Kitchen and fitting a new One.
Changing Career Paths, Ending a Relationship to take uup another. Ditching the Old Wardrobe in favour of new clothes. Perhaps more relevantly.. Turning over the Garden with your Spade, Dead Heading Old Blooms to allow for New Blooms..Killing The Ants Nest in your Food Cupboard. I do know incidentally that this is all relative... But the blanket admonishment of "Man Made" can in some cases as , hopefully listed above is also the blanket admonishment of apparently natural behaviouurs.

Truth be told... It occurs to me that even the "evil" folk seem to be doing what they think to be both right and natural.

Am I allowed to say thank you for allowing me to have a converstation with you please ? After all we have been Internet friends for a long time and I always had the utmost respect for your capacitty to Care.

Neville.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Light Seeker

Nah .. Guppy's and Platties along with Mollies are all live bearing Fishes. Those new born that don't into cover sharpish are eaten by their Parents .. Evil.. Some Spiders devouur their Mates after the act of well you know.. Evil.. The Dog that rejects the Runt. The Meteor that struck the Yukatan Peninsula, The Boxing Day Tsunami of 2004, The Krakatoa Cataclysm. Tunguska. The Toba Super Eruption that wiped out 80 % of all life on this planet 75, 000 years ago.

I didn't mention the word 'evil'. Not once. We're not really judging things in that sense, because that only leads to more conflict, it's really more about not doing that so that the conflict might come to an end.

You cannot, simply cannot , attribute all ills to a breif span of Mankind on this little Rock.I accept that we have infested this planet , I accept that we have drained many resources of this planet to the point of exhaustion. I further accept that many species have become extinct at our hands. I accept that some of us do bad things. But to claim any of that to be un natural is quiet frankly a mis understanding of what natural is. Evolution continues apace and sooner or later we as humans will be doubtlessly an exibit in a fossil museum.

I claim there are Man made artifacts which are symbolic, and are not observable in nature. These only exist as thought but Man carved them in stone and build monuments to them in his bid to make them permanent. These images have become more important to Man than nature. and nature is destroyed, wars are fought and all nature of suffering is inflicted in order to preserve these symbolic artifacts.

Apart from that overall picture, which no single man can do anything about, and even if he should, he'd merely enter conflict with it - which just more self imposed unnecessary suffering. In this meditation we look at Man made on the individual level, because Man makes for himself so much self imposed unnecessary suffering. This meditation isn't about getting a fantastic mind state or 'energies' or anything. That desire is just more self imposed unnecessary suffering, and running from that suffering to get more desired spiritual senses, more suffering , more running, more chasing that desired... - anything to keep the mind distracted from the actual experience that 'is' happening right now.

This meditation is to be conscious of what's going on now and has no regard for it being spiritual or special. My example is, it's about knowing what the 'k' key feels like when you hit it and being present for that. Otherwise, you're not really here, and life is going by unlived. No one cares about the 'k' key - which is good, because it means no one is clinging on to it, craving it or feeling any animosity and avoidance toward it. That 'k' feeling passes so freely it is neither wanted or unwanted; neither accepted or rejected; neither allowed or resisted - and that's the kind of meditation this is.

We know how this goes, because as life in action , we have always known.

Things die. New life ensues , in one form or another. The Human experience both from an individual point of view and collectively would appear at best , transitory. You are ccorrect though.... We SHOULD ought to be bothered and Care and nurture, simply because it is an act of creation of which we are a part..

We would care in a very natural way because it's something wonderful and miraculous, but does a Man see that? I think on the whole they don't. They aren't concerned with what the 'k' key feels like because it can't be possessed. They are primarily concerned with what they can hold and possess without realising that they actually pursue mere sensation at the expense of missing the current sensory experience. They cling to things, avoid things and preserve things, and kill anything that gets in the way of that endeavour - The irony is, they are chasing the sensation which they are missing - the one that's happening right now.

I stumble , primarily upon the dichotomy presented though.. And be warned...this is going to be a feeble analogy which may through certain eyes be not seen as destruction. Yet I would argue we have all done it.

Examples include ... Ripping out the old Kitchen and fitting a new One.
Changing Career Paths, Ending a Relationship to take uup another. Ditching the Old Wardrobe in favour of new clothes. Perhaps more relevantly.. Turning over the Garden with your Spade, Dead Heading Old Blooms to allow for New Blooms..Killing The Ants Nest in your Food Cupboard. I do know incidentally that this is all relative... But the blanket admonishment of "Man Made" can in some cases as , hopefully listed above is also the blanket admonishment of apparently natural behaviouurs.

Truth be told... It occurs to me that even the "evil" folk seem to be doing what they think to be both right and natural.

Am I allowed to say thank you for allowing me to have a converstation with you please ? After all we have been Internet friends for a long time and I always had the utmost respect for your capacitty to Care.

Neville.

People aren't behaving in accordance with the natural order because they aren't really aware of what's happening. It's all about seeking, trying to amass objects or pursuing fancy spiritual things. This meditation isn't going to give anyone anything. It's only a curiosity about what is true. There is no desire to fix it, or change it, or get anything, or have special experiences or any of that spiritual stuff being sold to everyone by those who pass themselves off as experts. They have been removed because all that is distracting. All this hoping and helping is gone because that's just another ulterior motivation. There is no want to anything here at all because that will just lead to disappointment. No one wants (or doesn't want) that sensation of the 'k' key - it comes and goes without the slightest investment in it - and this meditation is exactly that.

[Mr Interesting]

It has only now finally started raining and yet for days now there have been almost dire warnings that this big bank of clouds from the north will come in and drop bucket loads upon us and yes amongst the heat there have been flurries of wind coming in which seems to hint that water will follow but not so much as they all seem to be afraid of.

This rain now is heavyish in the weight of each single droplet but it is too an almost quiet song and though it may gain in intensity it seems to know what it's doing.

What I find interesting is that it is this time of year when all those who work have amassed this time when they rest and recreate and how each year the weather patterns seem more and more inclined to question that motivation. Not at all that nature will ruin your party but almost how can we best question your need to keep trying to make it all some perfection within brackets which was always there for the taking... as it were.

But it seems I somehow get it right. That I am somehow natural enough that nature and myself find no reason to quarrel. She somehow works for me just as much as I work for her... if indeed her she is, but it will suffice.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

It has only now finally started raining and yet for days now there have been almost dire warnings that this big bank of clouds from the north will come in and drop bucket loads upon us and yes amongst the heat there have been flurries of wind coming in which seems to hint that water will follow but not so much as they all seem to be afraid of.

This rain now is heavyish in the weight of each single droplet but it is too an almost quiet song and though it may gain in intensity it seems to know what it's doing.

What I find interesting is that it is this time of year when all those who work have amassed this time when they rest and recreate and how each year the weather patterns seem more and more inclined to question that motivation. Not at all that nature will ruin your party but almost how can we best question your need to keep trying to make it all some perfection within brackets which was always there for the taking... as it were.

But it seems I somehow get it right. That I am somehow natural enough that nature and myself find no reason to quarrel. She somehow works for me just as much as I work for her... if indeed her she is, but it will suffice.

Nothing better than a rainy day, but there can be 'too much of a good thing'. Yep - that expectation for perfection is probably an expressway for anxiety.

In the extreme case, the Queensland farmer plants his fields and needs the rain, probably realises it isn't realistic to expect it, but holds a lot of hope for it. It doesn't come and yet another crop fails, and it's at the point of losing everything. These are the facts and there's nothing that can be done.