can anyone answer this?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by white pegasus

there is no need for one to "allude" for "key understanding". I shared a personal experience.

I'm sure your experience was authentically real. That's the (kind of) 'I' I was alluding to.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I'm sure your experience was authentically real. That's the (kind of) 'I' I was alluding to.

Please don't get me wrong, I also have an 'I' referenced by the same allusion.

[white pegasus]

you cannot clarify or allude someone elses personal faith journey experience.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by white pegasus

you cannot clarify or allude someone elses personal faith journey experience.

I do not question your (or, in the case of the illustrative example I presented, Billy Graham's) reported experience or regard yours as his as it being anything other than exactly what you and he say these were.

I can allude to them and contrast them with others in presenting and commenting on how I think the dynamics of believable/believed 'answers' to 'prayers' for the 'real' truth to be revealed to one actually 'work'.

That 'view' of mine is what I presented in response to what I thought were general presumptions which were included in your post. I am commenting on the phenomenon of 'faith' (in this case, the 'receiving' of 'answers' to prayers to 'know' ) related experiences in general, my own included, not yours in particular.

[white pegasus]

there is no need for you to bring anothers personal faith journey experience into your contrasting-

no presumptions in my post-I was sharing a personal experience in regards to stars original post.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by white pegasus

there is no need for you to bring anothers personal faith journey experience into your contrasting-

There is no 'need' for you or me or anyone else to attend or participate in a 'spritual' forum either. As far as I am concerned, everything is 'grist for the mill' (may be 'ground' up to make 'flour' from which spiritual 'bread' can be baked) - this includes any (yours and mine included!) perceptions, experiences, theories (i.e. presumptions), suggestions, etc.. etc. etc.

no presumptions in my post-I was sharing a personal experience in regards to stars original post.

You said "I also want to let you know that I spent a very long time trying to figure it out-one night I prayed to whatever God was out there for answers-the true answers. My experience in my life is that God answers prayers. It might help if you pray from a sincere place that God would provide you the answers that you seek-answers that you can believe."

The presumption in such statement is that what 'worked' (in your estimation) for you would also 'work' (in like fashion) for the person you were speaking to. Since my theory, supported by the evidence of what happened in Billy Graham's case, is that the 'answers' on gets to one's prayers are 'slanted' ('biased') by the 'qualities' that one conceives characterizes, said answers may be of 'dubious' (i.e. questionable in my eyes) value 'good' ones, 'bad' ones, or a mix of the two. My 'sense' the 'answer' that Billy Graham received from 'his' 'God', that everything in the Bible was 'the word of (said) God', is of 'questionable' value since I 'see' that a lot of 'evil' has been perpetrated in our world 'in the name of' said God 'Word(s).

If you wish to use this as 'grist for you mill', it is freely given without any conditions being attached.

The short of what I am saying here is (1) that what you 'offered' was more than a simple recounting of your experience - your statement, which I quoted the relevant part of above, contained and promoted both presumptions and suggestions based on them, IMO; and (2) I am free to and, in service of greater awareness of truth, wish share the 'flour' which came out of 'grinding' what you said in your statement in 'my mill'.

I register the fact that you feel I 'violated' you (or said statement) in some way by following my mind and heart along the lines of (2) above. IMO, I didn't. Should you wish to dialog (dia-logic-ally) discuss the content(s) this statement or the contents of my first response to you - instead of simply (pejoratively, IMO)attributing and commenting on presumed facts regarding my having 'no need' to share my thoughts etc. as I do, I invite you to do so.

Originally Posted by davidsun

I think what the word 'you' in "answers that 'you' can believe" alludes to is key to understanding what the last sentence references:

There are 'answers' which aspects of a person's personality constellation (like fear and anxiety and closed-(narrow-bandwidth?)-mindedness or love and trust and curiosity) which render him or her unable to believe, and others which are the only kinds which he or she is (presently at least) incapable of believing, I think.

As an example, the following quote (from http://www.hopewithgod.com/what_is_t...ham_s_success), references to the 'answer' Billy Graham arrived at when be 'prayed' to know what was true:

"There are probably many, many reasons why God so greatly used Billy Graham; we may discover them in heaven!

But one thing certainly played a key role, and that is that Billy Graham relied on the Bible as God's Word. He tells how at one point early in his preaching career, there were people that were doubting the Bible was truly God's Word. Billy took time to pray and he committed Himself by faith to choosing to believe the Bible was -- and is -- the Word of God.

From that point on, his sermons were heavily filled with "The Bible says." At one point, I counted the number of times Billy quoted the Bible in a sermon -- and it was almost once every minute! The Bible is God's Word and it has the power to change lives -- and Billy preached the Bible."

The facts of what Jesus taught and the Facts of Israelite history proves 100%--no trinity god exists. And if it did--Which of the 33,000 of them is the correct religion? Because according to the bible-1Cor 1:10-- unity of thought( all matters) no division. is a true mark. On the other hand at Mark 3:24-26--a house divided will not stand.) Jesus started--ONE single religion. A worldwide brotherhood, unified in love, peace, and unity.--- and truth-Dan 12:4--John 4:22-24

[white pegasus]

davidsun-i apologize-if I had simply messaged star directly-you and I would not have this running dialogue-and please I do not feel violated.

I make no presumptions about what worked for me will work for another-I cannot make that guarantee-my personal belief is that everyones path to God is their own personal journey.

so please accept my apology-if I had messaged her directly we would not have had to go back and forth.

I feel no violation with respect to you-we believe different things-no judgement on my part-I have read your posts and this is how I know we have different beliefs-not saying you are wrong and I am right-simply saying we have a difference of beliefs is all.

I wish you well and again I apologize take care

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by white pegasus

davidsun-i apologize-if I had simply messaged star directly-you and I would not have this running dialogue-and please I do not feel violated.

I make no presumptions about what worked for me will work for another-I cannot make that guarantee-my personal belief is that everyones path to God is their own personal journey.

so please accept my apology-if I had messaged her directly we would not have had to go back and forth.

I feel no violation with respect to you-we believe different things-no judgement on my part-I have read your posts and this is how I know we have different beliefs-not saying you are wrong and I am right-simply saying we have a difference of beliefs is all.

I wish you well and again I apologize take care

I wish you well as well.

[shoni7510]

Originally Posted by sky123

The bible has been translated over and over again, it was written by ordinary people like you and me, therefore it is their individual interpretations that we read in each version.

Is it the word of the lord ? Thats something only you can answer...
I prefer to look at it as a ' Story Book ' and I take the good from it and leave the bad behind

I agree the Bible is a story book revealing the metaphysical things between God and his creation. Because it is written for human beings it is focused more on Earth and the relationship between God and human beings. If you read Genesis it states that 'in the beginning God created the heavens and Earth...' It quickly move to talk about Earth and exclude all other planets and the rest of the Cosmos because its focus is on human beings. But we know now from science that there is a universe, galaxies, solar systems and planets all of which the Bible just summarised in one word, heavens.

Because the message was difficult to deliver in human language it was given in story form the way human beings do to their children, that is how God communicated his message as well. So the Bible is not to be taken literally or as the absolute truth, or as the be all and end all. And before we go any further, the Bible is based on the stories of people from one region of the world to the exclusion of all others. The rest of the world was not empty when God was interacting with people from the Middle East, parts of Africa (Egypt and Ethiopia) and the Mediterrean Region.