Looking for someone to work with me / intense Spiritual Awakening symptons

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by DreamKey

If you have truly realized emptiness you have realized you are not in a time bound state. You're blatantly contradicting yourself.



The body doesn't actually get to be a tree. Seeing you are not the body will suffice.



I'm saying you are consciousness here and now and you were never a person appearing in consciousness. Then you talk about stages of progression being true, and I'm saying true spiritual progress is the absence of making anti-progress, which is what all spiritual seeking is. The absence of the seeking is the find, and you don't need to climb Mt. Woo Woo to stop that. Right now will do.



Not consciously, but your mind is spinning another tale.



What unconscious people consider help is some form of consonance for either spiritual or cognitive dissonance. Medication is one form of such consonance. Meditation, depending on how you define it, can be another.

Waking up or becoming conscious has nothing to do with avoiding dissonance, but rather, being conscious of why it's there, which interestingly enough, gives the energy at the root of the dissonance the space for expression. Rather than layering one conflict on top of another, being conscious gives one the spaciousness to see that the mind in conflict is not actually what you are.

From that place of clear seeing, the need to get away from self generated conflict dissipates, which puts an end to escapism and paves the way to what some call release or liberation. Consciousness is released from the idea that it is the mind in consciousness, and this, obviously, has nothing to do with how far the mind, which was never you, has progressed.



I lean toward agreeing with you here.

A couple of things.

Time is beyond the local mind. If you were truly free and have cleared enough stuff out to go through time you would understand what emptiness is and stages of progression.

The body is energy, the tree is energy. If you have realized you are not this body and have moved beyond the local mind you would know I am not talking about a physical merging :)


Every great tradition talks about stages of progression. Buddhism, Hinduism, Daoism all talk about stages of the mind and body purification. They all talk about the removal of obstructions.

It seems you have your theory that isn't based on anything but what you think.

Good luck with that.

I guess we can just agree to disagree and leave things like that.

[dryad]

Originally Posted by DreamKey

If you have truly realized emptiness you have realized you are not in a time bound state.

Umm..... I'm sure you both are more familiar with buddhist teachings than I am.... I only just started looking into it in any depth ... but do you realize that the Buddhist definition of emptiness is to be bound in time? Eastern emptiness and Western emptiness are quite different it seems. Something that exists outside of time is not empty. And that is the only thing that is considered a true self. That's why all selves which exist in time are false selves and therefore empty.

[DreamKey]

Originally Posted by dryad

But we are not a dream we are a manifestation.

Ok so you are a manifestation of the unmanifest. Sorta like a dream character of a dreaming mind. Not the same, but simular.

And if you are one..... why do you keep arguing with yourself?

Why is me pointing out faulty logic arguing? Wouldn't your friend point out your faulty logic if you were using flawful logic in a certain situation? I'm not saying this thread embodies minds in agreement, but I don't see that we are somehow not one due to disagreement, and I don't think you could logically see that either.

Oneness is great and all but personally i don't think it's enough to wake up.

The point is oneness is already the case. The idea that it's not can be seen through, and that's waking up.

To be lucid in the dream yes.... not to wake up. Duality and the way it manifests into reality is a lot more complicated and you need to understand that to be able to control reality at all... and that includes being able to get out of it.... permanently not just as a realization.

Welp, I'm saying the realization you are not separate is permanent, or perhaps more pointedly timeless. As far as this idea of controlling reality, what exactly do you mean? Are you implying that you can personally gain control of universal unfolding? Sounds more like staying asleep, and the antithesis of awakening.

And before you ask.... yes i know I'm not a person...but i can be if i want to be.

I'm not gonna ask, but you do seem confused.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by dryad

Umm..... I'm sure you both are more familiar with buddhist teachings than I am.... I only just started looking into it in any depth ... but do you realize that the Buddhist definition of emptiness is to be bound in time? Eastern emptiness and Western emptiness are quite different it seems. Something that exists outside of time is not empty. And that is the only thing that is considered a true self. That's why all selves which exist in time are false selves and therefore empty.

Depending on the tradition...

Emptiness of ultimate reality I would agree with you. If you are experiencing anything then you are not in or residing as emptiness.

I think of time as fragments of yourself. When you have truly realized beyond time it is an integration of all those selfs.

[DreamKey]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A couple of things.

Time is beyond the local mind.

Time is a creation of the mind. It provides continuity to the experience of being separate.

If you were truly free and have cleared enough stuff out to go through time you would understand what emptiness is and stages of progression.

I'm saying what is beyond time is beyond the idea of progression. This ain't rocket science.

The body is energy, the tree is energy. If you have realized you are not this body and have moved beyond the local mind you would know I am not talking about a physical merging :)

Nice to hear you are not advocating fornication with nature.

If you see what appears in consciousness does not limit consciousness, and that you are consciousness, the idea of two appearances merging into one is seen for the illusion it is.

Moving beyond the local mind isn't motion, which obviously takes place spacially. Realizing you are not a mind which creates the time space framework isn't an experience in the framework, which is what I've been trying to explain.

Every great tradition talks about stages of progression. Buddhism, Hinduism, Daoism all talk about stages of the mind and body purification. They all talk about the removal of obstructions.

Welp, I could tell you a story how my body was healed of the split mind, how I used to believe certain things that I don't and how I was in one stage and moved to another. I don't do that because what I realized is that I am consciousness, and what consciousness is not only isn't in a stage, it's what you are right now. You really aren't bound by time, and yet you insist on this imaginary journey as proof you have arrived, which only indicates more confusion.

It seems you have your theory that isn't based on anything but what you think.

Ok I'll think logically, you'll think illogically. That's not a theory, just what's happening.

Good luck with that.

I guess we can just agree to disagree and leave things like that.

Yes I can't logically agree with your compulsive tendency to think illogically and without reason. (see above)

[dryad]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Awake in that you realized the true nature of things.

But all of that was oneness. Zen teaches that oneness is only half of the true nature of things. Destruction and creation go hand in hand.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by dryad

But all of that was oneness. Zen teaches that oneness is only half of the true nature of things. Destruction and creation go hand in hand.

Buddhism doesn't believe in universal oneness.

Can you share the quote about destruction and creation please?

[DreamKey]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Depending on the tradition...

Emptiness of ultimate reality I would agree with you. If you are experiencing anything then you are not in or residing as emptiness.

I think of time as fragments of yourself. When you have truly realized beyond time it is an integration of all those selfs.

So emptiness isn't an experience, or it's an experience you can't remember? Buddhists, Hindus, sages, jnani's, have another name for that. It's called unconsciousness. I went into surgery once on my foot. I was unconscious for hours. According to your definition this was an experience of emptiness. Good lordy lord help us.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by DreamKey

So emptiness isn't an experience, or it's an experience you can't remember? Buddhists, Hindus, sages, jnani's, have another name for that. It's called unconsciousness. I went into surgery once on my foot. I was unconscious for hours. According to your definition this was an experience of emptiness. Good lordy lord help us.

Emptiness is not a thing.

If you are experiencing something it is not emptiness.

The Tao that cannot be described...

It can't be described with words or in reference to an experience because those are all things.

Hope that helps.

[dryad]

Originally Posted by jones boy

Or all things are like clouds in the sky and we are the clouds. When one has realized they and the clouds are one and the same with no obstruction of view. One has reached emptiness of self.

Isnt that oneness?

The zen concept I referred to (although the book I was reading draws on tao and hindu sources as well) is the stages of awakening as duality (ego and seperation) .....then pre-awakening (no ego) unity of opposites (what i would call oneness)....then awakening (kensho and satori or buddhanature) unity awareness of both duality and oneness.

that's my understanding of what the book presented I have paraphrased it.
The bit about destruction and creation is based on my personal experience of the way void energy works. Zen is all about direct experience of the void and equates void with emptiness.