Discuss the diff between faith and belief here

[Miss Hepburn]

The discussion is open for your personal definitions ... quote others...whatever.
Why are there 2 distinct diff words, for example, to get the ball rolling.
Comment in any way ..maybe you dislike faith, think it's baloney.
Maybe you wanna quote Bible verses...
This is the place.

I pretty much gave my view in the other thread….but I will take a walk through the basics as I see them….from a biblical perspective.

1. Definition of faith….Hebrews 11:1….”Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see”. To see is one of the 5 senses that we use to understand something. This verse implies that faith does not come by our normal senses. If not by the senses then our great informer is the Spirit.

2. Ephesians 2:8…..”For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith—-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God”. There is confusion here unfortunately. ‘and this not from yourselves’ immediately follows ‘faith’…I can only read that as meaning that faith also comes by grace….a gift of God. How else can we be certain of something we cannot see ?

3. Romans 12:3…..(my abbreviated version—read the whole verse if you want)….”I say to you…think of yourself…in accordance with the measure of faith that God has given you.” Once again God is affirmed as the source of faith. If one insists on viewing the 2 words as synonymous they will interpret this differently.

4. And there could be more….:). John 5:39 (shortened again)….”You diligently study the Scriptures because you think by them you possess eternal life….yet you refuse to come to me to have life”. Jesus is clearly pointing out that our hard work, our reading, our scholarship will not gain us entrance to the Kingdom. If our efforts are dependent on the senses they will come short of the goal. Our beliefs are definitely formed by thr forementioned(study,scholarship, the senses,etc) but the source of faith is the grace of God/Spirit…..

5. 1 Corinthians 2:14…..”The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” Belief vs. faith….consider the source. (all quotes from NIV)

[Justin Case]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

The discussion is open for your personal definitions ... quote others...whatever.
Why are there 2 distinct diff words, for example, to get the ball rolling.
Comment in any way ..maybe you dislike faith, think it's baloney.

It seems I haven't been here long enough to post links ... but ...

"The Greek word πιστεύω (pisteuō), translated believe in some versions of the Bible, has its roots in the Greek word πίστις (pistis), which means faith, which is derived from another word, πείθω (peithō), persuade.
...................

Regarding learning ... if you don't go by the hard data ... you can't "believe" anything.

[Miss Hepburn]

Good time to post again for our new members:
The Admin has asked for us to quote only 2-3 sentences when quoting others...
that also goes for outside material.
Good to check other things in Forum Rules under FAQ.

[Miss Hepburn]

Mo, do you have verses regarding belief, also?
And thank you both so far for posting !!!

I will interject: it took me about 1.5 years to figure out the difference, not a simple task!
I think it was due to unclear teaching, poor examples, lackluster explaining... cuz, they are different.

I will explain later, (what I learned, finally), and anyone would get it in a minute!!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Mo, do you have verses regarding belief, also?

Miss Hepburn,

The first thing that comes to mind is Romans 12:2…..”Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” I understand the mind to be the thinking part of us. The senses provide input the mind processes that into beliefs. The pattern of the world is to follow the crowd and not stray far from common beliefs.

Also, Mark 9:24……”I do believe, help thou my unbelief.” With liberty saying ‘I do believe’ actually means I have faith but I don’t understand. If we understand then we come to a belief…..our level of understanding determines how true our belief is. In the majority of the healings of Jesus he says ‘your faith has made you well’ instead of saying your belief has healed you.

I share that same problem….I have faith that the Scriptures are true but I might not understand the true or real meaning. My belief is not equal to my faith. I will say this: faith does not let me dismiss Scripture and, over time, much is revealed. There are those who are intent on finding error in the Bible…..they thrive on doubt. I seriously doubt whether this approach will result in revelation. After all we are entering the spiritual world and eventually that can only come by grace which is given to the humble.

[Starman]

There is the formal definition of words and then there is the colloquial usage, or common usage, of words.
How we use words evolves, and the origin of word meanings have changed throughout history.

Simply put; something I have faith in is something I can always count on, while something that I believe in
may waiver. In my opinion faith is stronger than belief.

Originally Posted by Starman

There is the formal definition of words and then there is the colloquial usage, or common usage, of words.
How we use words evolves, and the origin of word meanings have changed throughout history.
. In my opinion faith is stronger than belief.

Starman,

Yes, as we know definitions can only carry us so far. Everyone on these forums is conversant in English but we also know that some words in foreign languages have no equivalent in English. There was a reason for the Tower of Babel. We are left to believe that only the language of the Spirit could truly be universal. True faith skips over this problem because belief requires the acquisition of knowledge to form our beliefs….communicating via words.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Faith and/ or vs belief? Now, I’m not going to look up the dictionary! Intuitively or let’s say the way we relate to these words in the spiritual context … faith seems to be an affirmation we keep reinforcing about a belief system, perhaps a religion or scripture. A common term used as ‘have faith in Jesus or in God’ without having ‘seen’ what these imagined terms represent.

So blind faith based upon thought construct belief …

Let’s relate to personal experience. In my case, I was born a Hindu but no religious belief was imposed on me by my parents. Sure, on Diwali or at weddings, there were prayers and mantras in Sanskrit … Gayatri mantra being a popular one and then invoking blessings of Goddess of learning or of wealth etc.

Then schooling … a Christian missionary school, Irish brotherhood. Church, Jesus, the cross, hymns, occasional literature circulated but no imposition.

India has a cross section of religions. Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists, apart from Hindu and Christian. All happily coexisting (at least then, in formative years). I visited mosques and Gurudwaras.

For many years I kind of accompanied parents, friends and later, my wife, to wherever they wished to go to pray. But then, what about faith and belief, which is what this thread us about? What was on offer, what was received within, for going thorough the specified rituals? Nothing. So I stopped or at least made clear to my companions who wished to go, that I was just there as a tourist.

In my view first realisation, only then can true faith follow. There is this story …

Someone was ambling along a hilly terrain. He slipped and fell into a bottomless crevice. Somehow, by instinct, he was able to clutch onto a small bush or plant and so hung on for dear life, unable to move upwards, fearful of certain death awaiting below. He cried out to God for help and instantly a telepathic message was received, loud and clear ‘I’m here, child! Let go and I’ll take you in my arms!’ This dialogue went on to and forth for a while. Did he let go?

When tested, faith based on a thought construct belief system fails.

Realisation by recognition. That’s what we need to look at. Accepting a this or that system as a provisional hypothesis, neither negating nor accepting, ultimately we realise that the external is ephemeral and thus joy in permanence cannot be found therein. So we turn inwards, stopping thought flow. Thought ends, beliefs vaporise, ego dies. (All this takes a while). The void of silence then ‘speaks’ to us. We see, mirrorlessly. We feel the current within, unmistakably. We experience vibrationally. The attributes imbibed, assimilated are etched here now, in thisness of body, in permanence. Bliss in permanence, like the breath, the heartbeat. We get to a being-ness that just is, as it is, vibrant in fullness of divine energy. Something no one can take away from us, something that needs no validation. We become the answer, needing no translator.