Any scientific proof of Astral Projection?

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Arawn

That still sounds quite a bit like a dream. I've had dreams so vivid that I could swear they were real and they even had lasting real world effects, but they were just dreams. If it's done while the body is awake, then it sounds like a vivid daydream to me -- which I have also had.

I'm a bit more on the scientific side, however, and like proof before I believe something (even if it is my own personal proof).

This is the only way you will be convinced that it is different from dreaming--experiencing yourself. Then no one will convince you otherwise.

As I've said before, the Scientific Method involves reproducible and "objective" experiences. We are, by definition, subjective. Everything that we experience will be unique to us. It might have commonalities with someone else, but it will be different because we each perceive in a different way.

So "proving" a subjective experience--will never happen. Eventually we will figure out that we should spend less time on proving and more time learning to have the experiences ourselves. Then we would all be convinced. IMHO.

IsleWalker - Lora

@ Earthatic:

I not once said I didn't believe in energy and even stated that, in an earlier post, that I practice energy work. I think it's possible that the sensations are caused by the body, however, and may not actually have anything to do with it.

And how am I showing ignorance in my statements? I'm stating what I think is a possible explanation and what I think is more likely than an OOBE or AP experience. I'm also going off of what I have learned about the body and how it can do all sorts of odd things when the mind-state is changed just a little bit.

I'm not entirely certain how others meditate or what comes of their meditations. When I meditate, I blank out and I meditate while doing something -- not laying down or even sitting. I can't meditate by being still because it just isn't in me to do so; I have a dislike of sitting due to being prone to causing limbs to fall asleep or tingle. I also don't have any vivid sort of experiences when I meditate -- it's a calming, relaxing thing for me and not much more.

All right, quite a few people reported having the experiences. I still think it's safe to say that it's possible it was something concocted by the mind. Or they were experiencing something mystical.

I have studied astral projection and even attempted it, but not a thing came of it. I have developed doubts due to the lack of people who critically think about astral projection and the lack of people who write about astral projection in a way that isn't remotely "fluffy" or saying how it's the "bee's knees".

A nice book/article on astral projection that states a variety of possible reasons about astral projection along with the various symptoms of it, various ways to try and astral project, etc. would be very refreshing.

I have yet to come across that, however, so I draw my conclusions from the writings that I have read and the hundreds of personal accounts on AP that I have read. It's why I doubt the majority of AP experiences.

@ Islewalker:

Yes, it's a subjective experience and I know that, but (like stated just a little bit earlier) I have tried to astral project before (long before I was so cynical of it) and diddly came of it. Maybe it's because I just can't meditate like everyone else seems to meditate. I'm more on moving trances than anything and I doubt that would be conducive to astral projecting or any sort of OBE.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Arawn

I not once said I didn't believe in energy and even stated that, in an earlier post, that I practice energy work. I think it's possible that the sensations are caused by the body, however, and may not actually have anything to do with it.

All right, quite a few people reported having the experiences. I still think it's safe to say that it's possible it was something concocted by the mind. Or they were experiencing something mystical.

I have studied astral projection and even attempted it, but not a thing came of it. I have developed doubts due to the lack of people who critically think about astral projection and the lack of people who write about astral projection in a way that isn't remotely "fluffy" or saying how it's the "bee's knees".

You are being open-minded Arawn. :)

Originally Posted by Arawn

I'm not entirely certain how others meditate or what comes of their meditations. When I meditate, I blank out and I meditate while doing something -- not laying down or even sitting. I can't meditate by being still because it just isn't in me to do so; I have a dislike of sitting due to being prone to causing limbs to fall asleep or tingle. I also don't have any vivid sort of experiences when I meditate -- it's a calming, relaxing thing for me and not much more.

I've been saying this as well a while ago. Physical exercise can also give you feelings of bliss/euphoria. And who's to say we have to sit or lie down and empty the mind? One may as well try sleeping.

Originally Posted by Arawn

I have studied astral projection and even attempted it, but not a thing came of it. I have developed doubts due to the lack of people who critically think about astral projection and the lack of people who write about astral projection in a way that isn't remotely "fluffy" or saying how it's the "bee's knees".

There was a guy here (don't remember his name) from England (I think) who wrote (or still writes?) about his experiences with the phenomena. He explained it in a non-fluff way and said he did not know whether the experience was physical or not.

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

You are being open-minded Arawn. :)I've been saying this as well a while ago. Physical exercise can also give you feelings of bliss/euphoria. And who's to say we have to sit or lie down and empty the mind?

Thank you. :) And it can. I use things of a repetitive nature in order to go into a trance or meditative state, but I'm silly full of energy (at least to the point that laying down to just relax can be troublesome unless I'm already tuckered out).

One may as well try sleeping.There was a guy here (don't remember his name) from England (I think) who wrote (or still writes?) about his experiences with the phenomena. He explained it in a non-fluff way and said he did not know whether the experience was physical or not.

I'd be interested reading something along those lines. I've moved from board to board to board from sheer irritation at being unable to find anything written on anything spiritual or occult related that wasn't riddled with fluff. I'm very interested in just about everything, honestly. It's why I went to college, and why I focused on mysticism in history.

[Astral Explorer]

Of course physical exercise makes you feel good, it releases natural endorphins. So does being in trance state it releases those feel good natural chemicals in your brain. Astral Projection does the same thing and on many of my projections I came back to a very pronounced euphoric feeling that carried on for many hours after the projection.

I liked projecting early in the morning best. One because having light outside is very calming for the mind during a projection, and two because it sets the day off on a good note. You have plenty to think about if you get bored during the day, and you typically will have a good day because of the natural high.

Wanting scientific proof is understandable.

But perhaps in time physics will venture in researching this more.
After all our physical body's structure on particle level is very dense, whilst our other bodies (let's say Astral Body) is very dispersed.
So, whilst in the physical we can not sense anything of astral world using our given five senses. Whilst in Astral we can walk through walls - we can not do that in physical.
When in Astral body - all astral things seem solid and real to us and to our different senses.

This would be interesting to see how anyone can prove it by science.

[Astral Explorer]

Yah 2 nights ago when this entity tried to attack me it's punches and kicks went through me. I am learning how to make attacks on me useless and hoping I can do this more in the future. I have gone through tons of walls, floors, and ceiling during projections but what it weird is I will go through some of them and then randomly one of them will block me off. I am thinking that if I go through the next floor/ceiling/wall it is going to take me to the next level of planes which perhaps I am not vibrating at the right frequency to enter.

Originally Posted by earthatic

I recommend you read about as many experiences as you can. Not just about astral projection and OBEs - read about experiences with substances such as Salvia, N,N-DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, Psilocybin, and Ibogaine.

I used Ibogaine and it helped me resolve a heroin habit. Ibogaine saved my life.

Years ago I read several astral travel books and one thing they all suggested was that your astral body can dwell in the physical world as well as the other usual dream states.

So I've been waiting for someone to do a simple experiment where you write something on a piece of paper and store it somewhere high up in a cabinet or in an adjacent locked room. Then the subject can astral travel and read it and report the results and that's it.

The books made it sound easy enough once you got some practice and they were positive about real world travel. So what's going on? Tests like this must have been done? I assume they say "oh well I slipped into the astral world when I tried to read the paper" when they couldn't get a positive hit.

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by joelr

Years ago I read several astral travel books and one thing they all suggested was that your astral body can dwell in the physical world as well as the other usual dream states.

So I've been waiting for someone to do a simple experiment where you write something on a piece of paper and store it somewhere high up in a cabinet or in an adjacent locked room. Then the subject can astral travel and read it and report the results and that's it.

The books made it sound easy enough once you got some practice and they were positive about real world travel. So what's going on? Tests like this must have been done? I assume they say "oh well I slipped into the astral world when I tried to read the paper" when they couldn't get a positive hit.

Been done--repeatedly. Read the Buhlman book Adventures Beyond the Body. He would find that (a) he forgot, (b) he remembered and wrote on the paper but it didn't show when he woke, (c)he spent all his time and energy with this stupid experiment.

This is NOT an objective experience, for the most part, so experiments to try to "prove" beyond a shadow of a doubt are, by definition, a waste of time. This is SUBJECTIVE and therefore, my experience will differ from yours and everyone elses, even if we could manage to get to the same "place" (which is doubtful) at the same time.

It's the same as people on this site who decide that they will "meet" someone else on the site during a projection. I don't think I've ever heard it be entirely successful. One subject may see the other, but not as they were that night, or both will see different surroundings, or they will just sense the other person but not be sure. And they waste tremendous energy trying to synchronize time zones and get in their astral states at the same times.

Sorry to be so adamant about this but there are so many--STILL--after they have experienced what OBEs are who are trying to "prove" it with a basis that can't be used. There are those who will say that they aren't "real" then.

So be it. You've pretty much missed the point. The other dimensions are based on consciousness and intent of each consciousness--and those always vary from each other.

Again--sorry to come off strong but this strikes me as a waste of time.

Lora