Spiritual awakening or mental illness?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ivy

sadly, this thread continues to show the ignorance people have about mental illness.

Every symptom of mental illness is on a contingency scale. The line between it being a regular trait and being a symptom of a disorder is in the severity and how that effects a persons ability to function in everyday life.

Yep. I remember another poster said that it wasn't based on disfunction, and I thought, er, I'm pretty sure it is, but it's also probably true that illness is over diagnosed and people are over medicated and the DSM 5 is not really a sound diagnosis tool.

Come on spiritual people, go and research mental health, listen to people who have experienced properly diagnosed psychological disorders... and please don't minimise or dismiss those conditions. It is more helpful to understand them.

I didn't do much research on mental health, but being associated with street life and homelessness brings me into touch with mental illness. Sometimes people are considered mentally ill because they are pretty farout, and behavours fit the diagnosis criteria... a lot of quite normal behaviour is listed in the DSM 5... but not everyone is cut out to fit in, so I think there's an error being made in categorising people into types of mental illness, which is quite apparent in the ever expanding DSM.

[Deusdrum]

Originally Posted by Ivy

sadly, this thread continues to show the ignorance people have about mental illness.

Every symptom of mental illness is on a contingency scale. The line between it being a regular trait and being a symptom of a disorder is in the severity and how that effects a persons ability to function in everyday life.

Come on spiritual people, go and research mental health, listen to people who have experienced properly diagnosed psychological disorders... and please don't minimise or dismiss those conditions. It is more helpful to understand them.

Don't know who/'s you're referring to Ivy, but I do think it would help to be more specific in your criticisms rather than making broad statements. I say this honestly, b/c I'd like to know what you are taking issue with. to me, I assume it's self evident that any illness by definition is something that impairs our ability to live, to greater or lesser degree depending.

My mother worked in the Psychiatry ward at the hospital and other similar facilities in leadership roles for many years.

4 or 5 friends, some close, have been in and out of psyche wards several times, some their entire lives.

I've studied mental health, although not professionally, (yet) fairly extensively at post secondary school & on my own time.

I've been diagnosed with mental illness, and weened myself off a higher dosage of psychiatric drug prescription that I was on for 5 years.

Someone in my family has died because of mental illness.

I feel I've the right to speak about it. (I'm not taking this super-personal, btw; just illustrating my "qualifications" I guess)

Spirituality has everything to do with it, imo. That doesn't mean that sometimes people don't need medication, but the Pharmaceutical industry and in turn much of Psychiatry to me is primarily a business and social control mechanism with self-interests/profit > health of people. It is a flawed system. Of course there is good in it too, mainly the people that work in the field who genuinely care.

It is my belief that like everything else, love is the answer. Easy to say, and might not sound like much, but experience tells me the opposite. I have witnessed the positive benefits of spiritual practice, mindfulness, meditation etc. in regards to mental illness first hand. Perhaps you are being dismissive of Spirituality, or selling short the ability and power that sufferers of mental illness have over their own state. Maybe also it is a responsibility which cannot be avoided, for better or worse.

Peace. ~

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Deusdrum

Don't know who/'s you're referring to Ivy, but I do think it would help to be more specific in your criticisms rather than making broad statements. I say this honestly, b/c I'd like to know what you are taking issue with. to me, I assume it's self evident that any illness by definition is something that impairs our ability to live, to greater or lesser degree depending.

My mother worked in the Psychiatry ward at the hospital and other similar facilities in leadership roles for many years.

4 or 5 friends, some close, have been in and out of psyche wards several times, some their entire lives.

I've studied mental health, although not professionally, (yet) fairly extensively at post secondary school & on my own time.

I've been diagnosed with mental illness, and weened myself off a higher dosage of psychiatric drug prescription that I was on for 5 years.

Someone in my family has died because of mental illness.

I feel I've the right to speak about it. (I'm not taking this super-personal, btw; just illustrating my "qualifications" I guess)

Spirituality has everything to do with it, imo. That doesn't mean that sometimes people don't need medication, but the Pharmaceutical industry and in turn much of Psychiatry to me is primarily a business and social control mechanism with self-interests/profit > health of people. It is a flawed system. Of course there is good in it too, mainly the people that work in the field who genuinely care.

It is my belief that like everything else, love is the answer. Easy to say, and might not sound like much, but experience tells me the opposite. I have witnessed the positive benefits of spiritual practice, mindfulness, meditation etc. in regards to mental illness first hand. Perhaps you are being dismissive of Spirituality, or selling short the ability and power that sufferers of mental illness have over their own state. Maybe also it is a responsibility which cannot be avoided, for better or worse.

Peace. ~

Hi, I have not followed this thread and I don't know who or what Ivy was referring to in the post you referenced, but I just want to say that your words, your sharing, your wisdom in this post, has touched my heart.
Thank you for that.

[athribiristan]

I used to get really upset with my dad when I would get sick. He would always pull me aside and ask me why I got sick. I would be like 'its germs dad'. He always insisted that there was a spiritual cause behind it and it infuriated me. I always wanted to scream at him "CAN'T I JUST BE SICK?"

Now I'm 40, and I see what he meant. Whatever physical 'causes' you want to look at as the reason for mental illnesses, chemical imbalances, physical abnormalities, damage to the brain, emotional trauma, etc, there is always a spiritual cause. It may predate birth, it may lie dormant until triggered by an experience, it could simply be that a being is bad at making bodies, perhaps it is one of their first incarnations here. Whatever the reason rest assured there is one. Simply stated, spirit is always the cause, physical reality is always the effect.

My biggest issue is with the way we approach mental illness is the very classification of it as an illness. We relegate someone to the status of invalid simply based on the fact that they have chosen a different experience than most of us. Our immediate classification of different as wrong is the fundametal problem in question here.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by athribiristan

I used to get really upset with my dad when I would get sick. He would always pull me aside and ask me why I got sick. I would be like 'its germs dad'. He always insisted that there was a spiritual cause behind it and it infuriated me. I always wanted to scream at him "CAN'T I JUST BE SICK?"

Now I'm 40, and I see what he meant. Whatever physical 'causes' you want to look at as the reason for mental illnesses, chemical imbalances, physical abnormalities, damage to the brain, emotional trauma, etc, there is always a spiritual cause. It may predate birth, it may lie dormant until triggered by an experience, it could simply be that a being is bad at making bodies, perhaps it is one of their first incarnations here. Whatever the reason rest assured there is one. Simply stated, spirit is always the cause, physical reality is always the effect.

My biggest issue is with the way we approach mental illness is the very classification of it as an illness. We relegate someone to the status of invalid simply based on the fact that they have chosen a different experience than most of us. Our immediate classification of different as wrong is the fundametal problem in question here.

I think people who are spiritually inclined like to think they know the answers to things, but it seems to me that they don't typically have an understanding that's well rounded. I think it could be fair to say that many people with a mental illness aren't spiritually inclined, in which case there is no spiritual recourse, and also the case that other people with a mental illness are highly spiritual beings, yet still suffer the ailment, take medications and are hospitalised. That means I don't claim to know if there's a spiritual cause or an emotional trauma or a bacteria eating brain cells, but I can take each person as they come and start from there without any preconceptions.

[Deusdrum]

Originally Posted by Capacity

Hi, I have not followed this thread and I don't know who or what Ivy was referring to in the post you referenced, but I just want to say that your words, your sharing, your wisdom in this post, has touched my heart.
Thank you for that.

Thank you Capacity.

I'd be remiss not to add that if I'm not mistaken, I'm familiar with Ivy's (think she's changed forum names a couple times) postings from past forum reading, and find much of what she says to be very insightful and valuable, and overall love a lot of what she has to say.

So I'd like to put that out there Ivy, as well; think it's only fair plus it is how I feel based on what I recall from past impressions in forum-conversation.

[Deusdrum]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think people who are spiritually inclined like to think they know the answers to things, but it seems to me that they don't typically have an understanding that's well rounded. I think it could be fair to say that many people with a mental illness aren't spiritually inclined, in which case there is no spiritual recourse, and also the case that other people with a mental illness are highly spiritual beings, yet still suffer the ailment, take medications and are hospitalised. That means I don't claim to know if there's a spiritual cause or an emotional trauma or a bacteria eating brain cells, but I can take each person as they come and start from there without any preconceptions.

I hear what you're getting at Gem, but the bold part I disagree with. There is spiritual recourse for everyone whether they are so inclined or not, and in fact (imo mind you) it is the only recourse, ultimately.

Simple things like diet, proper sleep and exercise by themselves may be enough for most on the borderline of some mental malady or great stress to save them from falling under. Really these may be the most important foundations towards mental well-being for the majority of people. Others may be genetically predisposed to mental illness; but then some might say it was/is their karma to be born so disposed.

But the decision to eat right, sleep right, exercise, be kind to others, make healthy choices in life, develop good or bad habits in the first place is a spiritual consideration imo. Some may prefer to call it will or common sense, reason, the Tao, rationality or pavlovian response or whatever else depending on which way they are comfortable existentially relating to the world. But whatever you call it, there are in my opinion both Spiritual reasons and also Spiritual solutions for everything.

I cannot prove it, and I may be wrong, I may be preaching to the choir too haha (This is the Spiritual Forums, after all) but that is my experience, and my sense of it. I am fine people seeing it otherwise, all the power to them.

I myself have been guilty of presumptuousness and delusional, fantasy prone thinking plenty in the past. I don't think it's something exclusive to those inclined towards Spirituality though. You should meet some of my former college profs., for example; though in many ways they meant well, were quite astute and had a lot of technical knowledge and taught me quite a bit of useful information to boot.

I encourage anyone to watch the documentary called 'The Horse Boy' (it was on Youtube at one point) about a boy with a more extreme form of autism who's parents tried everything to help their son b/c he and they were having great difficulty coping but to no avail, and then as a last resort sought out a Mongolian shaman.

Well worth anyone's time if you are interested in seeing tangible results of the significant positive effects of a spiritual type of healers influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horse_Boy

The soundtrack to it is lovely also.

Originally Posted by Gem

Yep. I remember another poster said that it wasn't based on disfunction, and I thought, er, I'm pretty sure it is, but it's also probably true that illness is over diagnosed and people are over medicated and the DSM 5 is not really a sound diagnosis tool.


I didn't do much research on mental health, but being associated with street life and homelessness brings me into touch with mental illness. Sometimes people are considered mentally ill because they are pretty farout, and behavours fit the diagnosis criteria... a lot of quite normal behaviour is listed in the DSM 5... but not everyone is cut out to fit in, so I think there's an error being made in categorising people into types of mental illness, which is quite apparent in the ever expanding DSM.

It helps to look at how a diagnosis has come about for a person. I am going to leave childhood mental health out of this - but being diagnosed in adulthood requires a person to come into contact with a doctor. That may be because their behaviour has become so extreme that some public service have been alerted and they have been unable to control their behaviour subsequently. OR, because the person themselves has deliberately sought help.

My issue is when people behave as if psychiatric doctors patrol the streets diagnosing spiritual people with MH issues. That simply isn't the case - mental health is about how a person is managing to function in our society and also how they feel about that.

[revolver]

In my Awakening all beliefs dissolved away, leaving nothing but me, or my true self, that is all I needed, nothing more.

I work in the mental health field and find the balance between spirituality and illness fascinating.

Personally? I think we all have a touch of illness - just think of the behavior love drives us to do:)