The spiritual conversation is difficult, and therefore, skillful

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by Raziel

There are things that can trigger our memories of the universal energy...

I think it's possible to actually experience the universal energy, in a very limited sense. But you pretty much have to take it on faith until it happens to you.

Originally Posted by Gem

It's being aware of what's going on with yourself.

It basically means being conscious of what you're doing as opposed to 'know not what you do'.

The words just seem to fail to communicate it in my opinion. It's actually amazing in my view that Tolle and Krishnamurti and others managed to somehow get the jist of it on paper in words.

To me, "know not what you do," describes a person on auto pilot. Pretty much like a robot. Now somebody who is introspective, you would think is a step better, but really they are not. Seems to me there is just more focus on thought and concepts and words. The "know not what you do," are not aware. Really the person being introspective is not aware either. Their center or point of looking is thought.

The step out and away from thought is the higher state. In a way, it's like a journey from "know not what you do," to introspection and a thought based existence, then finally back to "know not" in a new way. The difference being you are not thought centered. You have the emptiness of the "not knowing" person without the auto-pilot directives and filters that motivate and react. It's like you still got stuff to do, like climbing a mountain, but the heavy back pack is gone and you are at peace.

You become light and humble and no longer fight what is or impose anything on it. What you are changes that around you, and that is perfect as it is. You no longer are interested in doing something, just in being something.

I would say any acceptance of "becoming" means one is not aware. Becoming only has one source, thought. There is nothing to become. It is trickery of thought. The now is completely perfect and wholly manifested and one does not have to do a single thing to be present to that. If one senses they are not present to it, there is nothing they can do to enter into it more completely. However, there is less they can do. The hindrances are imaginary and to be aware of hindrances means one is looking from the wrong vantage point. From thought. Seeing all of that as non-sense is the path to liberation.

Who or what convinces us we need to be something. To become the highest , we become the lowest. Self-concern has nothing to do with the self. It's all just brain produced illusions.

Originally Posted by naturesflow

In your unguarded moment and in my reflection of your words, I realized silence was my gift, even as my mind thought otherwise reading what your mind is thinking.

I see you onto everything, it must get tiring in this way of your seeing, understanding, knowledge, awareness, tricks and slips...

I like the ability to shift myself from needing to show my own internal processors sometimes. It actually supports me deeper to let go.

Knowing the intention of the other and reasons why do what they do, doesn't always have to be assumed through ideas past.

I suppose you could say this comes back to being 'self aware' in each moment as Gem is expressing. My self aware moment showed me how words and silence can go hand in hand of the moment. I have a choice to listen to myself in every moment, more consciously aware of myself.

Silence is a beautiful thing.. Certainly when it's talked about as an inner experience in response to a forum post as if the other should definitely try to experience this silence too. I'm probably not allowed to say "what a joke", because you seemed to become extremely silent within when I did that the last time..

Any chance of this silence pooring out into your responses?
I have a choice to listen to myself. this morning, Yup silence is guiding me to not let this judgement of Raziel pass without writing a few words myself..

With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Is it about just being aware or aware of yourself in all your sharing to share more aware of yourself inclusive of the surroundings aware?

So when one is truly aware of his or her Self during a conversation. The conversation will become skillfully silent all by itself?

A meditative, silent self as a conversational guide and partner will take away all responsiveness to that which is disagreeable so only the agreeable remains. If it doesn't well than YOU should become more aware, more silent, look deeper within.

Because that always works for me. So the fact that id silently disagree must be you.
Now how to phrase that without appearing condescending, or morally superior?

I wonder.. Maybe a few minutes of self awarene silence works?

With Love
Eelco

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Silence is a beautiful thing.. Certainly when it's talked about as an inner experience in response to a forum post as if the other should definitely try to experience this silence too. I'm probably not allowed to say "what a joke", because you seemed to become extremely silent within when I did that the last time..

Any chance of this silence pooring out into your responses?
I have a choice to listen to myself. this morning, Yup silence is guiding me to not let this judgement of Raziel pass without writing a few words myself..

With Love
Eelco

You (yes you) read too much into everything. Silence helps me with all this.

[naturesflow]

QUOTE=Eelco]So when one is truly aware of his or her Self during a conversation. The conversation will become skillfully silent all by itself?

Hush now. (please don't read into this will you? it might add more onto your all ready reading gift)

A meditative, silent self as a conversational guide and partner will take away all responsiveness to that which is disagreeable so only the agreeable remains. If it doesn't well than YOU should become more aware, more silent, look deeper within.

I can tell.

Because that always works for me. So the fact that id silently disagree must be you.
Now how to phrase that without appearing condescending, or morally superior?

Your question has it's own answer.

I wonder.. Maybe a few minutes of self awarene silence works?

Your question again, has it's own answer.

With Love
Eelco

Your so full of "with love's" it too gets repetitive.

[Shivani Devi]

I'm still trying to work out how one converses silently on an internet forum.

Also, I am big into interpreting 'double-speak' and isn't "please converse silently" simply the same as saying "kindly shut the hell up?"

Originally Posted by Gem

It's being aware of what's going on with yourself.

It basically means being conscious of what you're doing as opposed to 'know not what you do'.

I see, Well I guess I passed. I realize how I get triggered by certain language in a certain type of post, I am also perfectly aware of how my post should be understood.

Skillful words to uproot dichotomous and deep levels of moral superiority language carefully and hopefully ignorantly disguised in spiritual conversations on public forums. I'd be worried if ya'll see what you appear to miss each time general you are disagreed with.

With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Hush now. (please don't read into this will you? it might add more onto your all ready reading gift)
I can tell.
Your question has it's own answer.
Your question again, has it's own answer.
Your so full of "with love's" it too gets repetitive.

Full of love, reading gifts and answers To questions. Yup that's me.
Awesome, intelligent, and keen eye for general **.. Yup Me too.

Kind, open self aware.. All me.

reptitive, sometimes vindictives, a jerk misunderstood.
All me me me.

Angry at false prophets, at the inconsiderate, angry at the ego's who think they are so spiritually superior they have to convert the whole of human existence according to their self aware concoctions. Yup that's me too.

With Love
Eelco

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I'm still trying to work out how one converses silently on an internet forum.

Also, I am big into interpreting 'double-speak' and isn't "please converse silently" simply the same as saying "kindly shut the hell up?"

Silence before, between, in and after words that you can access more conscious of and be more silently aware of your own words from that place of awareness.

Does that make sense to you?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Full of love, reading gifts and answers To questions. Yup that's me.
Awesome, intelligent, and keen eye for general **.. Yup Me too.

Kind, open self aware.. All me.

reptitive, sometimes vindictives, a jerk misunderstood.
All me me me.

Angry at false prophets, at the inconsiderate, angry at the ego's who think they are so spiritually superior they have to convert the whole of human existence according to their self aware concoctions. Yup that's me too.

With Love
Eelco

Reminds me of a song by John Legend. = All of me.