Do we really chose our lives before we are born?

Originally Posted by Nesanjica

I have always felt that I didn't choose this life! I was pushed into it.

It is funny you said this. I was taught that at it all depends on where you are at the time of death. Are you at peace with yourself, or are you fighting it, angry, worried? When you die you are in search for a new life, an egg to be planted in, if you are at peace you will take your time and choose wisely, if you are scared or angry then you will grab at the first thing that pops up. Your karma will still be with you regardless of your choice. So yes you do get to choose where you go, the kind of life you have is determined by your karma.... hope this made sense.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Pamuya

It is funny you said this. I was taught that at it all depends on where you are at the time of death. Are you at peace with yourself, or are you fighting it, angry, worried? When you die you are in search for a new life, an egg to be planted in, if you are at peace you will take your time and choose wisely, if you are scared or angry then you will grab at the first thing that pops up. Your karma will still be with you regardless of your choice. So yes you do get to choose where you go, the kind of life you have is determined by your karma.... hope this made sense.

oh that's a great theory. so if someone has a particularly difficult death, scary and painful, then they're more likely to suffer all the more in the next life?

what a cruel concept "karma accumulation" is. imo, barely any kinder or more just than the "eternal torture" concept.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

oh that's a great theory. so if someone has a particularly difficult death, scary and painful, then they're more likely to suffer all the more in the next life?

what a cruel concept "karma accumulation" is. imo, barely any kinder or more just than the "eternal torture" concept.

Yes it is cruel, that is why it is so important to have a spiritual path, to know the importance of living a Pure life, there is no one there to hold your hand, you have created your own path, it is up to to create good karma now so regarless of how you die you will be ready and carry good fortune with you. Personally I believe if you die a scary painful death it was in your karma to do so, that is why you preare yourself spiritually for death because we must be ready to handle any situation. There is no eternal torture unless you carry on with behavior which takes you there, each life you you get as a human, you have the ability to obtain enlightenment.

[Nesanjica]

What I believe was my last life before this one is that I had enlightenment but was tortured and killed and died a horrible death. The thoughts at the end were: I don't want to live and I don't want to be a human... This has carried on into this life and probably hence why I feel I am 'forced' to live a terrible human life. The death of a previous life definitely play a big role!

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Pamuya

Yes it is cruel, that is why it is so important to have a spiritual path, to know the importance of living a Pure life, there is no one there to hold your hand, you have created your own path, it is up to to create good karma now so regarless of how you die you will be ready and carry good fortune with you. Personally I believe if you die a scary painful death it was in your karma to do so, that is why you preare yourself spiritually for death because we must be ready to handle any situation. There is no eternal torture unless you carry on with behavior which takes you there, each life you you get as a human, you have the ability to obtain enlightenment.

given my comment you might have surmised that i don't believe as you do. my life view doesn't fit your schematic so i'm not going to accept your usage of the word "you" as a personal pronoun. i mean, YOU can only speak for your self and it's just your opinion. right? you're not attempting to assert some "universal truth" to which All and sundry must submit. are you?

if believing that the victims of this harsh and chaotic world somehow "ask for it" due to "karma" is the way to "enlightenment" may i stay forever in the dark. i prefer to keep innocence as a truth.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

given my comment you might have surmised that i don't believe as you do. my life view doesn't fit your schematic so i'm not going to accept your usage of the word "you" as a personal pronoun. i mean, YOU can only speak for your self and it's just your opinion. right? you're not attempting to assert some "universal truth" to which All and sundry must submit. are you?

if believing that the victims of this harsh and chaotic world somehow "ask for it" due to "karma" is the way to "enlightenment" may i stay forever in the dark. i prefer to keep innocence as a truth.

I was just answering your question, you are free to believe as you wish, we are here to share our beliefs and learn about eachother, in my religion these are our beliefs in rebirth. If you do not want to hear of others beliefs on rebith why are you here. I answered you honestly with no malice intended. I don´t understand your anger. May you be free of suffering and find inner peace.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Pamuya

if you are at peace you will take your time and choose wisely, if you are scared or angry then you will grab at the first thing that pops up.

I don’t think being scared or angry has anything to do with how you choose your next life. I think an inexperienced soul might choose quickly or an impatient soul might choose badly.

Originally Posted by Pamuya

Yes it is cruel, that is why it is so important to have a spiritual path, to know the importance of living a Pure life, there is no one there to hold your hand, you have created your own path, it is up to to create good karma now so regarless of how you die you will be ready and carry good fortune with you. Personally I believe if you die a scary painful death it was in your karma to do so, that is why you preare yourself spiritually for death because we must be ready to handle any situation. There is no eternal torture unless you carry on with behavior which takes you there, each life you you get as a human, you have the ability to obtain enlightenment.

This is so wrong for me. It’s the saying, “be good or you will pay.” “Be afraid of retribution by being “good””. It’s no better than the Christians with their threats of an angry god and being cast into hell. Karma is not cruel. It serves a purpose. And when it is no longer necessary for a soul to advance it will no longer be a part of their life.

I remember my last time choosing. I chose my horrible lifetime because I had things to learn. It was not karma. You have no idea how much you regret once you get to the other side. The shame and self disappointment is very raw. That’s because you see “the big picture.” And you know how badly you have wronged yourself and others. So you choose (a new incarnation) based on that, not karma.

[kris]

Originally Posted by Nesanjica

What I believe was my last life before this one is that I had enlightenment but was tortured and killed and died a horrible death. The thoughts at the end were: I don't want to live and I don't want to be a human... This has carried on into this life and probably hence why I feel I am 'forced' to live a terrible human life. The death of a previous life definitely play a big role!

Not just our experiences, what we go through, but how we process our experiences is important. Also we are not always aware of what we want deep down. Perhaps sometimes we don't want to acknowledge what we want deep down.

Originally Posted by linen53

I don’t think being scared or angry has anything to do with how you choose your next life. I think an inexperienced soul might choose quickly or an impatient soul .......

I remember my last time choosing. I chose my horrible lifetime because I had things to learn. It was not karma. You have no idea how much you regret once you get to the other side. The shame and self disappointment is very raw. That’s because you see “the big picture.” And you know how badly you have wronged yourself and others. So you choose (a new incarnation) based on that, not karma.

You call it by a different name but the way you look at death and rebirth is very similar to mine. I was taught Regret is a karmic effect of something you have done in the past which you thought was wrong. And being inexperienced or impatient when choosing a new life, I was taught is a sign of an untrained mind. Something which we(sangha, group in my temple) study and meditate on to train our minds, so when death comes we make a choice on a new incarnation which will help us on our spiritual path. Karma does not choose your new incarnation, your spirit does, but you do carry karma (your energies) to your next life. Sorry if I didnt make that more clear, still working on my english writing skills. Once enlightenment has been achieved we are not reborn. We are all free to believe what we wish, I am just sharing what I have been taught and my beliefs.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Pamuya

I was just answering your question, you are free to believe as you wish, we are here to share our beliefs and learn about eachother, in my religion these are our beliefs in rebirth. If you do not want to hear of others beliefs on rebith why are you here. I answered you honestly with no malice intended. I don´t understand your anger. May you be free of suffering and find inner peace.

i am sharing my beliefs (or more precisely my disbelief) and i wasn't angry as i shared. i merely point out that you speak to me as if you are speaking FOR me in my Circumstance. you simply don't have the authority to make assertions of "universal truth" that would be applied to me. i don't even believe in linear reincarnation (much less in the accumulation of "karma".) and i never accused you of "malice".

you presume too much, in my humble opinion but it seems that particular attitude comes with the "enlightenment" territory.