Did the big bang really happen?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Another straw man. I laid it out quite clearly in my example of electroweak unification. Is it that you can't understand or don't want to understand?

Aside from that why is your opinion worth more than thousands of years of mystics and sages exploring spirituality? Why is it worth more than the two Nobel prizes awarded for electroweak unification?

I haven't been speaking to you about electroweak unification in this thread .

Please stick to what I have actually said and implied which was ..


''When there is talk of things arising and appearing in and of consciousness without acknowledging the physical birthing process for examples sake then there is a supported foundation of everything is dreamy ..

I have an understanding that things don't just arise or appear in the physical realm due to my experience of it's processes . You didn't just appear and reply to my above post did you?

Did you vanish the moment you posted?

If questioning your presence in these ways makes me biased in some way then so be it .

I am happy to state that you didn't simply arise as an appearance'' .


So the only straw man you see is based upon your thoughts that do not reflect what I have actually said .

It is true enough to say isn't it that you didn't disappear the moment you finished your post and you didn't just arise in consciousness the moment that you began writing .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

How do you know this?

Okay, so let's take what you said as an example

''The unchanging laws of creation are not magical, they are normal and natural''

So are you under the impression that the unchanging laws of creation create an appearance of a physical baby that is conscious and aware out of thin air and not by the ways and means of what would be regarded as a natural process of child birth?

Would it be more natural for a baby to be manifested out of thin air rather than a natural birthing process?

When you observe nature in effect you see how it transforms, if things just appear then there is no transformation only the appearance of it .

This is why I speak about the dream analogy often because peeps seem to want to distance themselves from the appearance or from the world because it's either not real or kosher, or whatever word floats their boat .

The whole consciousness arising and appearances just appearing sounds grand and floaty but hold no weight because the foundation of the premise is built on sand and the sand is just an appearance of sand lol .


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I thought everything just arises out of consciousness like a rabbit from a hat does .



x daz x

Was this comment directed at me? I do not think everything just arises out of consciousness and I do not think the physical universe is an illusion, except for Non-duality intent and purposes and that is where I draw the line. Consciousness or more accurately a person's attention/focus perceives the physical universe/reality and a person's personal beliefs, concepts and mental and emotional conditioning influences how a person perceives the physical universe/reality. A person perceives or views the physical universe/reality however he or she is focused on/gives his or her attention to.

I think someone saying everything just arises out of consciousness to mean the physical universe is an illusion is a major misunderstanding of the original concept.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Was this comment directed at me? I do not think everything just arises out of consciousness and I do not think the physical universe is an illusion, except for Non-duality intent and purposes and that is where I draw the line. Consciousness or more accurately a person's attention/focus perceives the physical universe/reality and a person's personal beliefs, concepts and mental and emotional conditioning influences how a person perceives the physical universe/reality. A person perceives or views the physical universe/reality however he or she is focused on/gives his or her attention to.

I think someone saying everything just arises out of consciousness to mean the physical universe is an illusion is a major misunderstanding of the original concept.

No Mike this was not directed at you, I am drawing on previous conversations had that didn't involve you or JASG.

I have had years worth of conversations had with hardcore non dualists that are totally messed up because of their misconceptions as touched upon before .

These misconceptions seem rife and peeps I see often use phrases and terms such as 'things appear and things arise' without knowing how or without acknowledging physical processes involved ..

When peeps take such a stance they create for themselves a foundation that mirrors that and they get themselves in to an awful muddle .. This is inline with what you said that I bolded .


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

No Mike this was not directed at you, I am drawing on previous conversations had that didn't involve you or JASG.

I have had years worth of conversations had with hardcore non dualists that are totally messed up because of their misconceptions as touched upon before .

These misconceptions seem rife and peeps I see often use phrases and terms such as 'things appear and things arise' without knowing how or without acknowledging physical processes involved ..

When peeps take such a stance they create for themselves a foundation that mirrors that and they get themselves in to an awful muddle. This is inline with what you said that I bolded .


x daz x

Ok. A belief such as everything arises out of consciousness/the physical universe is an illusion is saying absolute truth and absolute reality is an illusion thus creates ignorance of the truth and prevents the person who believes that from learning from and knowing the absolute truth/absolute reality.

Reality (truth) must, eventually, be absolute, or else there is no such thing as reality at all. If reality is not absolute—if there is no ultimate, single, all-encompassing truth—then there is literally nothing else to discuss. All statements of all kinds would be equally valid or wholly invalid, and there would be no meaningful difference.

Absolute truth is number one, not concepts, beliefs or knowledge. Everything else is but a dream or fantasy.

Non-duality realization creates major post-awakening issues for the person, which most teachers and gurus do not give a solution to, because most teachers and gurus themselves have post-awakening issues. Post-awakening issues are when subconscious thought patterns, triggers and addictive behaviors hold on for dear life. New triggers emerge into a persons attention/focus. Old trauma resurfaces and etc.

Originally Posted by God-Like

I haven't been speaking to you about electroweak unification in this thread .

Please stick to what I have actually said and implied which was ..


''When there is talk of things arising and appearing in and of consciousness without acknowledging the physical birthing process for examples sake then there is a supported foundation of everything is dreamy ..

I have an understanding that things don't just arise or appear in the physical realm due to my experience of it's processes . You didn't just appear and reply to my above post did you?

Did you vanish the moment you posted?

If questioning your presence in these ways makes me biased in some way then so be it .

I am happy to state that you didn't simply arise as an appearance'' .


So the only straw man you see is based upon your thoughts that do not reflect what I have actually said .

It is true enough to say isn't it that you didn't disappear the moment you finished your post and you didn't just arise in consciousness the moment that you began writing .


x daz x

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

That's what you're doing. You're presenting an argument that's not my position and one that's easily knocked down.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

That's what you're doing. You're presenting an argument that's not my position and one that's easily knocked down.

I am not presenting an argument that has got anything to do with you .

That is the straw man . You are for some reason associating what I have said to you .

Like said I haven't been referencing / speaking about your electroweak unification theory in this thread ..

I asked straightforward questions about arising / appearing in consciousness .

That's it .

Now all you are doing is creating your own straw man by trying to associate my posts / questions based upon your theory.

I haven't mentioned you or Mike in my posts . I haven't questioned either of your theories on this thread have I .

This is why I also said ''Please stick to what I have actually said and implied''.


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Ok. A belief such as everything arises out of consciousness/the physical universe is an illusion is saying absolute truth and absolute reality is an illusion thus creates ignorance of the truth and prevents the person who believes that from learning from and knowing the absolute truth/absolute reality.

Reality (truth) must, eventually, be absolute, or else there is no such thing as reality at all. If reality is not absolute—if there is no ultimate, single, all-encompassing truth—then there is literally nothing else to discuss. All statements of all kinds would be equally valid or wholly invalid, and there would be no meaningful difference.

Absolute truth is number one, not concepts, beliefs or knowledge. Everything else is but a dream or fantasy.

Non-duality realization creates major post-awakening issues for the person, which most teachers and gurus do not give a solution to, because most teachers and gurus themselves have post-awakening issues. Post-awakening issues are when subconscious thought patterns, triggers and addictive behaviors hold on for dear life. New triggers emerge into a persons attention/focus. Old trauma resurfaces and etc.

Well I agree that it causes issues / problems / contradictions and many are put down and explained away as paradoxes likened to a get out of jail free card ..

Peeps don't realize that certain foundations had don't cater for their theory because it all comes crashing down at one point .

Most of the time separation and divide creeps into a theory of oneness as illustrated.


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

I am not presenting an argument that has got anything to do with you .

That is the straw man . You are for some reason associating what I have said to you .

Like said I haven't been referencing / speaking about your electroweak unification theory in this thread ..

I asked straightforward questions about arising / appearing in consciousness .

That's it .

Now all you are doing is creating your own straw man by trying to associate my posts / questions based upon your theory.

I haven't mentioned you or Mike in my posts . I haven't questioned either of your theories on this thread have I .

This is why I also said ''Please stick to what I have actually said and implied''.


x daz x

Not really as you said in this thread and I assume is at least in part from our discussion in another thread

Originally Posted by God-Like

My line of thought was slightly with tongue in cheek because of conversations I have had in the past where peeps just say things arise and things appear as if by magic and I have been met with resistance to even admit their physical birth/s as a way and means to appear in this world .

And yes, it's still very pertinent to this thread and your comment if you knew anything about astrophysics, cosmology, the Big Bang and field unification theory.

To put the cherry on the cake it's the same exact concept as spiritual non-duality, only it's non-duality in the context of physics.

You are hung up on taking 'appearance' literally, when you should know it's a metaphor. That's why you are either simply ignorant or being disingenuous.

You indicate you know all about non-dualism, but to be perfectly honest it doesn't seem like you know much at all.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Not really as you said in this thread and I assume is at least in part from our discussion in another thread



And yes, it's still very pertinent to this thread and your comment if you knew anything about astrophysics, cosmology, the Big Bang and field unification theory.

To put the cherry on the cake it's the same exact concept as spiritual non-duality, only it's non-duality in the context of physics.

You are hung up on taking 'appearance' literally, when you should know it's a metaphor. That's why you are either simply ignorant or being disingenuous.

You indicate you know all about non-dualism, but to be perfectly honest it doesn't seem like you know much at all.

So you assumed that our other discussions were relevant and it just wasn't true .

This is the straw man is it not? By your own admission / understanding is that I was creating an argument without any foundation . Isn't this what you have done?

And again, you speak about appearances as I understand it to be without any knowledge of what conversations I have had with others that did associate appearances as that and only that .

So I am not hung up on this aspect at all, I was illustrating the issues some have with this line of thought as a premise which had nothing to do with you or Mike .

You are also welcome to speculate on what I don't know, I simply stated that peeps think they arise in consciousness as if by magic without any understanding or acknowledgement of physical processes .

The fact is however regardless of your put downs without any foundation is that you don't just appear and disappear do you .

You can associate what we are to whatever you like, but as an appearance of this world 'you' don't just appear without a process in effect that facilitates a physical experience .

Arising in consciousness doesn't mean much at all does it if a peep wants to understand how a physical form is created of this reality .

Arising in consciousness just doesn't work when questioned .

Arises from where? From somewhere, where something can arise from?


x daz x