Meat eating Christians?

Pete; your posts are always entertaining, but after serious study, I find that you have belifs rather than proof. That is ok of course. None of us can prove our beliefs to be the truth, but you seem to be doing just that.

Morpheus, Starof the Sea and PeteC-UK ; then there are the rest of us... hey ho.

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Ecthalion; Acknowledged - agreed - my truth will NOT be your truth,even if I can point you to an external source,still that is just an interpreatation also and I do appreciate that..precisely why I emphasise METAPHYSICS underpins it all for there is always a greter reality that we are largely ignorant of..

Christ knew the dilemma well - which is precisely why He advised SHUN the external influences altogether,and seek this truth ONLY within your secret place - your deepest MIND - behind all the false dieas half truths and misconceptions and interpretations,lays the source of All-That-Is - and that truly is eternal and universal and once encountered,is the only proof youll ever need...The words and actions of man,are at best,a guide,a signpost perhaps - but there is only one sure and definate Way,just as He advised..

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by PeteC-UK

Hi Folks..

1) Knight; Well,frist off - same advise again here - keep it in context - see Clementine Homolies - written by POPE CLEMENT,one of the earliest founders of this new religion - NOT the old jewish faith,but the new "christian religion" - the very same religion that Yeshua Christ speaks of to Peter,saying they are the ones who will hold us PRISONERS by twistng His teaching...

2) Its quite absurd that people quote things about Christ from the bible of all places,expecting to come to understand Him,when all along He was actually warning that the religion itself,would corrupt His teaching complelty..

3) And so I saya again - the NEW testamant,is to be avoided at all costs - becasue see cleaaly,here is Christ explaining it all in detail,and this NEW testamant,is indeed the "book of the new religion",which He says is totally corrupt and purposefuly misleading..

4) Oh,and Knight - NO,there is no real hypocrasy in the old testamant..You have to rememebr,that the god there is a CREATURE same as you and I - it has EGO - same as you and I - it has personality,needs,desires,fears - and it already told us right up front,it is a JEALOUS god..Therefore,dont be suprised if it denies certain of its own actions,or contradicts itself it seems,for it is NOT the full Divinity,but is a CREATURE with a "split mind" EXACTLY the same as you or I..

1) That's nonsense. Clement was first century. Long before the Council of Nicaea, long before the Roman Catholic Church even came into existence and his religious stance is distinctly anti-Pauline.
Peter is quoted directly and his stance is exactly the same as James, who was the brother of Jesus and who knew Jesus better than anyone, and was the one Jesus entrusted above all others to found the first Christian Church in Jerusalem.
James " drank no wine nor strong drink. Nor ate he any living thing. Even if his clothes were free from any taint of death for he wore no woolen, but linen garments only"

2) "Quite absurd" to quote the New Testament? You were happy to quote it, presenting it as infallible truth, in post 271!

3) As above.

4) So, to your understanding God is a schizophrenic 'creature' ...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

Pete; your posts are always entertaining, but after serious study, I find that you have belifs rather than proof. That is ok of course. None of us can prove our beliefs to be the truth, but you seem to be doing just that.

Morpheus, Starof the Sea and PeteC-UK ; then there are the rest of us... hey ho.

I'm not in total agreement with Pete's reasonings, Ecth. However, I've provided proof here on the forum, which you dismiss for personal and subjective reasons. For the disaffected towards the Faith, there is never enough proof.
Their perspective and mindset is not based or founded on proof either.

Go study the Dead Sea Scroll research, and the rest. The dating of the Old Testament writings. But, it doesn't do any good, or have any value to you.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

So in other words, you're saying on the one hand the Bible has been corrupted, fabricated and interpolated throughout, yet on the other hand because it says this or that in the Bible it's 100% guaranteed to be true ...
That doesn't really add up does it.

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. The slave traders used the (fabricated) verses in the Bible condoning slavery to justify and continue the slave trade.
The words of Paul 'Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear" and again "Slaves obey your earthly masters in everything" and similar elsewhere in the NT. Which can only be construed, if true, as Divine approval of slavery.

As we've already covered, abstention from meat was the norm in early Christianity. As independent historians of the day confirm.
Jesus never ate meat from the day of his birth to the day of his death.

'All that matters' is Truth. Truth for truth's sake and not least because carnage inevitably follows in the wake of falsehood.

Blamket and simpliistic reasoning, knight.

For the most part people were treated as family during those days. Even in the new world, and after the Civil War in the U.S., there were many slaves who didn't want the freedom offered.
This was not always the case of course.

In Biblical times, also, people were allowed to sell themselves into subscription in order to have debts paid off.

I recall also the parable of the Roman Captain who came to Jesus because his servant was ill. He cared about him.
Curious, do you recall the old Dillon rock song, "You're going to have to serve someone"?

What applies as well is the statement from the famous movie...
"You are a slave Neo..." Knight, you are a slave, question is, who are you going to serve, and what? The Eho of this organic situation, and the urges thereof? The god of this temporary world? Or, THE TRUTH.

This is the same type of mindset of those who are want to claim how evil the white race is for conquering the native americans. As if they didn't war amongst themselves. AND TAKE SLAVES CAPTIVE.
Again, we are talking about a civilization paradigm
AND HUMAN NATURE. Which hasn't changed throught he many ages... though progress and innovation has.

Meanwhile, changing of staus quo and the dietary habits of people is going to come down to a free and voluntary choice. Misquoting scripture, mis citing, and MISREPRESENTATION certainly isn't going to do the trick, knight.
And, in extremist manner.
Think about it. The Law stated that if one is going to dine on Veal, to not boil it in it's mothers milk.

There is no evidence at all that Jesus taught against eating meat, or about what to eat at all.
Even while Pork was disallowed for the Jews under the laws, He didn't say anything about it.

He did say it's nnot what goes into a person that defiles them, rather, what comes out of them, such as lies!

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Oh Brother - OK,count to ten,deep breath - remind Self,take it slowly,let them catch up..OK..

Point 1; Clement was 1st century before the council of Nicea.Yes,I agree,but why does that make it nonesense..?.. Fact is this man was startin g the very religon - had already organised the heirachy of bishops,deacons cardinals,and he himsepf would become Pope supreme ruler - so NO not nonesesne,for this very establishment that he helps to start WILL BECOME the RC church throiugh the actionso fthe council of Nicea later - same organistaion,which is why I advised right up front keep itin context,and why also I took the trouble to explain the POLITICAL situation of the time..

Your man Clement wasa chief architect in the building of the,at that time,NEW and emerging religon an dindeed is known as the Apostilic Father of the Church..Agreed,it was NOT YET called the RC church,but nevertheless it IS the same religous establishment..

Point 2; Please dont try to twist my words,youll find you simply arent up to that task..I did NOT quiote the nT - I used it to show your own hypocrasy,by telling you that actually within that book you take to be truth,it tells you clearly that Christ ate meat,when you was saying He was vegan - I did NOT quote the book at all,just told you that you base your truth IN that book,then you blatantly contradict yourself..i even emphasised all that,by askin gyou outright,WHo do you trust - the book or the man Christ..?..

In fact,as far as my superb memory serves me - and it is superb indeed,for this is all part of this LIVING process Iam explaining,its all about MIND - to my recollection,the ONLY time I quoted the NT anywhere on this entire forum,is to point out John,Christ telling the authorities they have the wrong god,and do not know His Father.See,try as they might,they didnt quite eradicte all traces of His true message - though as I say,the NT is the last place you will find it,and so,is the last place you will see me pick a quote form..You may at times even see me REINTERPRET a passage that someone else may have quoted and I give a different perspective to it - but I never choose a quote from the NT as simly,Christ speaks much more clearly and directly inthese other gospels..

I never said the NT was a complete fabrication - I said it is carefully edited and altered - so please,dont try to put words into MY mouth,for you dont even comprehend your own hypocrasy above,or the division within your own mind..

Point 3: As above then I guess..

Point 4; Again,dont put words into my mouth..This god IS a creature for sure - I did say that and stand by it..And I say it has a split mind,just as I say the phrase again above,because this is how MIND works - metaphysics again - all stems from that first dualistic impulse Sofia and Christ - Yin and Yang - two parts compliment and form ONE whole - and we are made in THAT image of the Conscious MInd hence there are always THREE distinct aspects to Self - the Holy Trinity - 2 parts to our mind make ONE living entity - but enough of that for now,for it is complicated,and some are struggling too much already with even the basics..Such deep wisdom is for another time and place it seems..

But listen - whether this deity has any mental health issues,or has any psychosis or something similar,is a purely MORTAL JUDGEMENT - and I DID NOT MAKE IT so dont judhe on MY behalf please - feel free then to judge him how YOU see fit of course,but dont assign such judgements on MY behalf,for again,you are not up to that task,not being privvy,clued in to or fully aware oif the things I take for granted..

Indeed,if I were to judge this demigod jehovah - then I place NO BLAME on him at all - there is no one to blame actually - for the deity believed it was the source,had built for itself a world where it ruled supreme - only to have that illusion shattered and the truth shockingly and rudely revealed..As I said,hes very much like you or I..How do you supose YOU would act..?..What if we add to this,the fact his own mother rejected him,banished him,disowned him..?..So you thnk you might have a few "anger issues"..?..Control issues..?..

He is an egoic demigod with very similar concerns to you or I..I could see that much even as a ten year old questioning my Mother..So hes prone to fits of rage one minute,and the next hes wishing to make amends - sounds exactly like some of us doesnt it..?..And when he finally confronts his own actions,he then does his best by us,first destroying the worst of the corruption,then telling us to watch out for our "saviour",and actually having a complete change of heart toward us,becoming the kind and caring deity we always craved..

Jehovah - just ike us - is on a spiritual journey of his own..As above so below - always..HE awakes to His true potential,merges and becomes one with the Father - eventually - and his change in character is easy to see..I judge him then as I would any other divided mind - with compassion,empathy,forgiving them their ignorance even before they act negatively,knowing as my mate said "they know not what they do"..Jehovah was ignorant,and for a while he allowed jealousy to sway his decisions,but he comes good in the end..Not schizo then - normal - same journey as we take - but he walks a closer path to the Father than we do,that is all,an order of Divinity that is closer to source,but not THE source - circles within circles - as above so below,always..

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Blamket and simpliistic reasoning, knight.

For the most part people were treated as family during those days. Even in the new world, and after the Civil War in the U.S., there were many slaves who didn't want the freedom offered.
This was not always the case of course.

In Biblical times, also, people were allowed to sell themselves into subscription in order to have debts paid off.

I recall also the parable of the Roman Captain who came to Jesus because his servant was ill. He cared about him.
Curious, do you recall the old Dillon rock song, "You're going to have to serve someone"?

What applies as well is the statement from the famous movie...
"You are a slave Neo..." Knight, you are a slave, question is, who are you going to serve, and what? The Eho of this organic situation, and the urges thereof? The god of this temporary world? Or, THE TRUTH.

This is the same type of mindset of those who are want to claim how evil the white race is for conquering the native americans. As if they didn't war amongst themselves. AND TAKE SLAVES CAPTIVE.
Again, we are talking about a civilization paradigm
AND HUMAN NATURE. Which hasn't changed throught he many ages... though progress and innovation has.

Meanwhile, changing of staus quo and the dietary habits of people is going to come down to a free and voluntary choice. Misquoting scripture, mis citing, and MISREPRESENTATION certainly isn't going to do the trick, knight.
And, in extremist manner.
Think about it. The Law stated that if one is going to dine on Veal, to not boil it in it's mothers milk.

There is no evidence at all that Jesus taught against eating meat, or about what to eat at all.
Even while Pork was disallowed for the Jews under the laws, He didn't say anything about it.

He did say it's nnot what goes into a person that defiles them, rather, what comes out of them, such as lies!

I have a feeling your knowledge of the history of the slave trade is on a par with your knowledge of the history of the Bible ...

Again, the best you can come up with is taking a verse entirely out of context. A verse that is to do with the washing of hands and nothing to do with diet.

Go over to YouTube and seek out the video 'If Slaughterhouses Had Glass Walls'. That is what you are putting your name and soul to, and that is what you are attempting to put Christ's name and soul to, and you talk of 'misrepresentation'.

Spiritual teachers must share the karmic responsibility for everything their 'audience' does with their teachings.
I am well aware of that, as you are.

[knightofalbion]

[quote=PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Oh Brother - OK,count to ten,deep breath - remind Self,take it slowly,let them catch up..OK..

Etc. etc.

[quote]

With the greatest of respect, you don't seem to know what you have written, never mind what I have written.
Go back and read the thread again.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

I have a feeling your knowledge of the history of the slave trade is on a par with your knowledge of the history of the Bible ...

Again, the best you can come up with is taking a verse entirely out of context. A verse that is to do with the washing of hands and nothing to do with diet.

Go over to YouTube and seek out the video 'If Slaughterhouses Had Glass Walls'. That is what you are putting your name and soul to, and that is what you are attempting to put Christ's name and soul to, and you talk of 'misrepresentation'.

Spiritual teachers must share the karmic responsibility for everything their 'audience' does with their teachings.
I am well aware of that, as you are.

You seem to confuse industry ethics with religious morality, but the lack in ethical industry practice doesn't make eating meat a sin and killing isn't actually a sin per se. Sin is determined by the intent or volition, and wherever some sense of malice is being generated we could say that's a sin. People simply don't feel any malice toward the animals, so they aren't sinning, but cruelty in industry is appalling, so people can be well aware of why they are vegetarians, and have their own reasons, but it's not a universal principle and it should not be asserted on anyone as such.

I find rhetoric like 'putting your name and soul' very peculiar indeed, but 'Christ's name' is used to justify a lot of horrible things... what of that 'karmic responsibility'?

[BigJohn]

Some people believe eating fruit, vegetables, nuts, etc. also acquire karma.