A question

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky

It's very interesting and I know exactly what you mean through my own experiences. I personally think it's the 'unconscious mind' which is inaccessible to the 'conscious mind' but influences our judgement and behaviour. Just my opinion though.....

yeah i figured that it was easy enough to know about that, as I stumbled on to it at an early age when i knew little or nothing about anything... I was quite lost for a long while after that lol.... my own favorite preference nowadays is to blame it on my 'twin' but really, I just don't know what is going on sometimes....

[Presence]

Thank you all for your interesting responses. You've given me a lot to think about. Yes, it's interesting about experience. The experience of not being the doer must be an enlightened state and maybe karma is transcended at that point. Maybe we keep touching it until we get there permanently. I would love to live that way. Imagine the freedom and peace. Thank you again everybody : )

[sky]

@ kralaro.
Thank you for pointing out those Verses , they've piqued my interest to delve a little deeper now. I've always called those experiences happenings/doings but never thought much further. I know very little about Hinduism so if you come across other teachings that may help me in my ignorance regarding this subject I would be grateful...

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

yeah i figured that it was easy enough to know about that, as I stumbled on to it at an early age when i knew little or nothing about anything...

So when I was a child being caught out doing naughty things and I said 'it's not my fault' I wasn't telling lies

[sky]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I am aware this has not yet explained the 'Why?'....why is there this tumbling towards purity, called karma in diff lives,
when we are not really the 'doer'?
That's a bit more advanced....maybe someone else will step in.

Yes please, all suggestions welcomed.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Presence

"You are not the doer."

I'd say that's a potential. Not often realized. But even if not realized we are not really the doer as we are just passively letting our ego lead us around and do I think.

I'd sum it up as being in the now with the attention completely off the thought stream in your head. I think Maharshi also said it is hard to not do lol to be completely still. So seems like we are the "doer" a lot of the time. To have no goal or practice or desire or judgement. No talking at all within or without. No aversion or seeking. No wanting or not wanting. No reaction no interpretation (As our attention is elsewhere. Not on or in mind.) Mind is there but one has no interest in it.

What is there to do? To let go of doing and instead just being. Nowhere to move or go as we are already there even while moving.

[sky]

If and when we identify ourselves to be individuals, we believe that we are the author/doer of actions, and the ones doing things, but when we drop back ( a happening ) into the impersonal 'eternal I' we recognise that all arises spontaneously..... or something like that
Just my personal musings.

[Unseeking Seeker]

On the opening post question, my view is:

As an aspect of the whole, inseparable from source (God), we shift from singularity* (*eternal light of Self, complete, at peace, lacking nothing) into duality to grow in love, wisdom and power by overcoming adversity. Were we not to choose to do so, our growth in singularity* (*heaven) would be slow, since there are no challenges to overcome there.

The descent into duality finds us potentially complete, as we were and are but practically, we come here with memory erased and so are unaware of our divinity. An ego (identity) becomes temporarily manifest, to help us navigate earth life through the mind-body apparatus we have ensouled. The ego is only interested in the welfare of the body whereas our true being within speaks as conscience, emoting love. In most cases, ego in head overpowers our true Self in the heart.

Given this preamble, we can now look at karma and free will, reconciling it with the truth of non-duality:

Whatever is set into motion in thought, word and deed is a creation of the ego. If it is in alignment with the truth impulse, with love, no karma is generated. However, if it enacted from a self-serving fulcrum, karma is created. What we do to others, we are doing to ourself because all is one. We err because of ignorance. So that we learn all consequences of our actions, we spherically experience what we set into motion, so that by so learning, ignorance is removed. Thus, if we are unjust to someone, next time around we will become the victim and feel what we made the other person feel. Now, although all is one and there are no others in the true sense, this rotation of roles of the individuated essence of the whole, which we can call soul, it goes on until all karma is dissolved and the soul, the separate entity, the ego disappears and all that remains, is as always was, the Self.

About free will or doership, since the entity (us) is unaware, unconscious or let us say, in a state of hypnosis, there is no free will really. Free will exists at best, at soul level, there too in consultation with and steered by universal consciousness (God).

When it is said we are not the doer, it means that we are not this body-mind but the essence of God, as Self, within it and are actually inert, made alive by the breath of God. As such, it is God who experiences what we think, feel, speak and do. It is a game of descent and ascent, forgetting and re-cognising, concealing and revealing. In truth, there is no one here.

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by Presence

Hi Folks,

I was hoping someone here might help me out with a question. I love Ramana Maharshi and one of the things he is famous for saying is, "You are not the doer." I understand this from the perspective of non-duality. But my question is, how does this work with reincarnation and working through our karma? We are "doers" in that sense, right? We're trying to make good choices and do good things. So how does that fit with Ramana Maharshi saying we are not the doers? Appreciate any thoughts you might have on this. Thank you!

Excellent question. We are all a part of the oneness, all part of God. When we asked to come here and experience life, we asked for and were given free will, that is, the option to act independently. Essentially everything is God, so even though we live our lives via our decisions, through our free will, everything that actually takes place is simply the movement of god, to our wishes, so Maharishi is correct, we are not the doers as human beings, we are in the video game of God and his electronics moves the pieces in accord with our free wills movement of the joy stick.
As to reincarnation and karma, these are the simply the methods which we have to get right at, by growing our skills as we attempt to get through the various levels of Gods consciousness growing computer game, that we appear to be inside, The end goal being to leave it altogether.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by sky

Yes please, all suggestions welcomed.

I'm going to send you something a master said that really sums things up 'perfectly'!!
(All the whys of things...all wrapped with a bow.)