I don’t know ,who wrote it, but it’s just super. IMO

[Altair]

Originally Posted by AgarthaZen11

I fell asleep in one world, and woke up in another..... Disney suddenly ceased to be in the magic, Paris is no longer romantic, New York is no longer the main city, the Chinese Wall is no longer a fortress, Mecca is empty.... Hugs and kisses became weapons.... and not visiting parents and friends, turned into, an act of love.... You suddenly realized, that power, beauty and money are worthless, and they will not be able to get the oxygen, that you need so much..... The world continues to live and it is beautiful..... He locked only people in cells..... It seems to me that he tells us: “You are not necessary.... Air, earth, water, and sky work fine without you.... When you return, remember, that it is you, who are my guests, but not my masters.....

Neat.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Also ...

You touched many debatable points in your post ... and generally I'm not a fan of debates.

The smaller you get, the more "nothing" you find. Every unit of matter is made of much smaller units surrounded by much larger space. Basically, we give form to chunks of "nothing", and define delimitation where it actuality there's none. What part of us? Our subconscious.

In a dream you can't pass through a wall, nor fly, only as long you believe you can't ...

"Saving the environment" to what end? The recent crisis seems to indicate that environment would be cleaner without our "advanced civilization". Still, humans are the superior form of consciousness manifestation in the realities we co-create. Maybe that's why civilizations formed and disappeared, to reset.

Why the man is here can't be found in what the majority of men consciously do with their lives.

The original point was about "what would be if we didn't exist (all of us)". My point is that there would be nobody to give form to nothing.

I've Never Been To Me (Lyrics) - CHARLENE

"Hey, you know what paradise is? It's a lie, a fantasy we create about
People and places as we'd like them to be but you know what truth is?
It's that little baby you're holding, and it's that man you fought with
This morning, the same one you're going to make love with tonight
That's truth, that's love"

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I posit that there is no objective reality.

Do you think that the "air, earth, water and sky" you perceive in your dreams exist there as you perceive them, and you just visit them? I don't think so. Then, why would it be true for your awake reality? Just because we call it "awake", and we say that it is "real"?

That was the point of my reply.

We can never know whether there is an objective reality or not, because all that we are aware of is our own subjective experience. We cannot know what may or may not exist if we are not present.

The point of my reply was that if we take the dinosaur (that old favourite example) which existed millions of years before humans appeared, presumably they could only exist because of the presence of air, earth and water. Unless you are suggesting that the dinosaurs too created their environment from their own subconscious?

Peace

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by iamthat

We can never know whether there is an objective reality or not, because all that we are aware of is our own subjective experience. We cannot know what may or may not exist if we are not present.

The point of my reply was that if we take the dinosaur (that old favourite example) which existed millions of years before humans appeared, presumably they could only exist because of the presence of air, earth and water. Unless you are suggesting that the dinosaurs too created their environment from their own subconscious?

Peace

:) ... How do you know there was ever an "objective" dinosaur, if you agree that you "can never know whether there is an objective reality or not"?

Think in terms of virtual reality, a game. You sit in front of your terminal, and play. You know only whatever your game shows you. What you watch isn't a live transmission, it is a software created reality.

Even more, if we bring to discussion the "simultaneous time" concept, that so many mention satisfied not understanding how might that work, that actually means that the present can change the past too, not only the future.

We started from

Originally Posted by AgarthaZen11

... Air, earth, water, and sky work fine without you.... When you return, remember, that it is you, who are my guests, but not my masters.

which suggests that the Earth and the elements objectively exist, which I challenge.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Think in terms of virtual reality, a game. You sit in front of your terminal, and play. You know only whatever your game shows you. What you watch isn't a live transmission, it is a software created reality.

Or we can take it a stage further. The virtual reality game is not a software created reality (which would suggest that the software has some kind of objective existence) but is all created by our own mind. A virtual reality game within a virtual mental creation.

By the same token, in the absence of any objective reality there would be no-one on this forum but me having my own experience. In the morning I turn on my computer and have a look in Spiritual Forums, and lo and behold, my mind has created new postings by non-existent people who go by a variety of names. It is all there to entertain or irritate or inspire me. And I sit back and observe how I respond to all these aspects of my own creation.

And then we take it a stage further still, and there is no computer and no postings. It is all shapes and colours, manifestations of light and vibrations which my mind interprets as being a screen and words. It is all a play of consciousness, and consciousness remains unaffected by its own creations.

Alternatively, there is a shared objective reality and some real person elsewhere on this planet who goes by the name of inavalan might read these words and respond or not, as the case may be.

Peace