Are we actually getting anywhere as a collective society?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

I do not personally believe my own misery materializes the suffering of those around me. I do not dictate the contents of their lives, or what they become when they are no longer living. I do not have that kind of power, and I regard this law of attraction business as a demented kind of solipsism. It always assumes you're the only one tugging at the cosmos - but it is all of us, no? And we can't all create a perfect universe for ourselves when what we all want differs. The dream is tugged in all directions, and so, here we are.

As for what I'm doing, well. Besides the good deed of stirring this pot now and again so the soup at the bottom doesn't burn, I am a digger. I dig, desperately, day after day, until my hands are bloody and numb, driven by the knowledge that it must be done, and there are very few who wish to endure the task, and also by the knowledge that if I were to cease I would likely be crushed by my own momentum. There is hope and fear ahead of me, but only fear behind. As for how much it has helped, I'd say it hasn't helped at all.
our beliefs
...

Thank you for your reply. I believe that we two are too entrenched in our divergent beliefs.

Anyway, I wrote "your emotions create thought forms that attract in like thought forms that materialize, in your case, in perceiving more misery around yourself." Underlined "perceiving". I didn't suggest that your "own misery materializes the suffering of those around" you.

And, I wasn't talking about the "law of attraction" that is peddled around for money, or parroted.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

I notice this a lot; the presumption that the revolution is for us, and not other, more vast and less human dreamers.

Spiritual Science states Earth Plane reality has been manifested specifically for the Human soul collective's evolution, yes. Nevertheless, all of Spirit -- all the beings and heirarchies -- benefit and are affected by the Human soul collective's evolutionary progress (and failures as well supposedly).

FYI, I tell you this because you asked, and because I have read and studied the above. But wisdom is not about latching onto a set of belief-tenets. The awake-wisdom path is actively engaging in real life, in the Now and in full consciousness. You are doing that in your way, you are definitely awake to what real life is all about, from one perspective.

[Armadodecadron]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Thank you for your reply. I believe that we two are too entrenched in our divergent beliefs.

Anyway, I wrote "your emotions create thought forms that attract in like thought forms that materialize, in your case, in perceiving more misery around yourself." Underlined "perceiving". I didn't suggest that your "own misery materializes the suffering of those around" you.

And, I wasn't talking about the "law of attraction" that is peddled around for money, or parroted.

Oof, this an even more scathing condemnation; that I'm so blinded by my own funk that I'm painting the tulips black.

Originally Posted by Baile

Spiritual Science states Earth Plane reality has been manifested specifically for the Human soul collective's evolution, yes. Nevertheless, all of Spirit -- all the beings and heirarchies -- benefit and are affected by the Human soul collective's evolutionary progress (and failures as well supposedly).

FYI, I tell you this because you asked, and because I have read and studied the above. But life is not about latching onto any one set of belief-tenets, that IMO is the asleep path. The awake path is actively engaging in real life, in the Now and in full consciousness. You are doing that in your way, you are definitely awake to what real life is all about, from one perspective.

It would hardly surprise you that I don't subscribe to such a belief, in spite of considering myself a spiritualist. I just don't see evidence for it. Quite to the contrary; when I regard us and the new age movement at large, I see our collective beliefs mobilized as a method of insulating us from the horrible possibility that our suffering could be in vain if we do not rise, that we've got exactly one shot at this thing, and that we've very nearly blown it.

This is entirely on topic, by the way. This is a large part of why I personally believe we aren't really getting anywhere with our pursuits. People don't want to face an uncertain future, so they cleave to philosophies that promise them certainty and safety.

New age culture is so open-ended that it facilitates rapid social and philosophical evolution. This was supposed to be our redemption - instead it has become a scenario of 'survival of the fittest delusion'. This is a problem vast enough as to be difficult to describe; imagine that an idea is a creature, and that it has to compete with other ideas for the human mind. When two ideas clash, whatever is more engaging (and not necessarily true) gets the meal, and the other one goes hungry.

When you introduce fear of uncertainty into this process, it gets nasty, and takes us where we are today: the ideas that survive are the ones that can set up impervious strongholds in the human mind. Karma is a good example. It excuses any misdeed, justifies any suffering, and promises that everything is part of the plan. There's no evidence for any of that, karma doesn't require evidence, and so people love it because it perfectly blocks doubt. So an idea like karma established an unassailable role in the pecking order of psychological fauna because it could repel criticism from rival ideas with incredible resilience.

This system can be used to describe just about anything in spiritualist culture. Anything that makes us feel safe, anyway.

This fills me with despair.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

This is entirely on topic, by the way. This is a large part of why I personally believe we aren't really getting anywhere with our pursuits... There's no evidence for any of that, karma doesn't require evidence, and so people love it because it perfectly blocks doubt... This fills me with despair.

The problem is with beliefs.

Most people rely on their faith-beliefs; they arbitrarily choose to believe ideas like karma, God, Jesus, Satan, aliens, ghosts, dark entities.

You've renounced spirtual faith-belief, and replaced it with a kind of material belief. You believe all people have such beliefs because they love to block out doubt. You believe society isn't getting anywhere. And you are filled with despair because once one renounces the arbitrary faith-belief path, there is little left but a materialistic, nihilistic black hole.

And then there is that which can replace (transform) arbitrary faith-belief, without leaving that hole. I call it experiential or intuitive wisdom. It is also known as middle path wisdom. It is the path of the hermit carrying the light of truth, illuminating the way between spiritual-religious faith-belief on the one hand, and material-scientific faith-belief on the other.

[Armadodecadron]

Originally Posted by Baile

You've renounced spirtual faith-belief, and replaced it with a kind of material belief.

That is true. The spirit is material for me. Faith is not required. But your your presumption that I am a nihilism riddled-husk without purpose is most definitely an erroneous one; possibly my talk of digging was a bit too oblique. It's probably better that way, for now.

I'm perplexed by your claim to have struck the balance. No one who walks the razor's edge is confident in anything but their ignorance. They're not shy about doubt and fear. You don't usually see these honorable badges of calling in new age culture, and yet you seem extremely certain you're the one holding the torch.

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

...you seem extremely certain you're the one holding the torch.

Wouldn't the one 'carrying the torch' be the one who claims 'faith is not required'?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

But your your presumption that I am a nihilism riddled-husk without purpose is most definitely an erroneous one; possibly my talk of digging was a bit too oblique. It's probably better that way, for now.

I'm perplexed by your claim to have struck the balance. No one who walks the razor's edge is confident in anything but their ignorance. They're not shy about doubt and fear. You don't usually see these honorable badges of calling in new age culture, and yet you seem extremely certain you're the one holding the torch.

Goodness, I claimed nothing of the sort. So that's it? The best you can do is critique, and insinuate, and find fault with my open and friendly attempt to try and answer a question you asked, and to maybe bring a bit of clarity to things? So many ways you could have responded. But you chose that. Okay well, all the best.

[Armadodecadron]

Originally Posted by Kioma

Wouldn't the one 'carrying the torch' be the one who claims 'faith is not required'?

Not much gets by you! I'm a little awed. I should include the stipulation that I don't think what I've shined on would be well received here. It's not that I'm unwilling, of course.

Originally Posted by Baile

Goodness, I claimed nothing of the sort. So that's it? The best you can do is critique, and insinuate, and find fault with my open and friendly attempt to try and answer a question you asked, and to maybe bring a bit of clarity to things? So many ways you could have responded. But you chose that. Okay well, all the best.

Like Kioma rather brilliantly illustrated, a claim doesn't need to be a direct statement.

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

Not much gets by you! I'm a little awed. I should include the stipulation that I don't think what I've shined on would be well received here. It's not that I'm unwilling, of course...

Let's get to the 'spirit' of the discussion Arma... Do you believe in the 'Brotherhood of Man'?

[Armadodecadron]

Originally Posted by Kioma

Let's get to the 'spirit' of the discussion Arma... Do you believe in the 'Brotherhood of Man'?

I have no idea what that is, and google took me to a british pop group.