Debate with Buddhism Teacher

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Ahahaha! That was great!

[CSEe]

Dear RyanWind , it seems clear to me that you repeatedly claiming I hold on to beliefs even though I had explained to you in so many ways.......and as I am here not to prove anything , not to prove what is right or wrong , your writing is always a great source for my learning process ...

Let me share with you one true story :-

When I was young and living with my parent , I used to be very late come back from work , sometime even pass mid night ...each night my mother will waited for me and will prepare supper for me claiming that I must be hungry after work .....but in most night , I had supper / beers with customer before and was very full ......and we argued .....but most of the time I forced myself eating her foods as I do not want to dissapoint her ... she even cry if I refused to eat ...

So one day , I decided I no longer can entertained her wish any more so I refuse to eat the supper prepared by her ....she cried alot ... I just let her .....and soon after that I decided to work far away home and live separately ......and no more suffering for both .

So dear RyanWind ......you keep on claiming I hold on to beliefs regardless how i explain to you , I realized suffering in you ....suffering in me as I had became a factor for your suffering ........

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

You can say you are on a fast moving train somewhere between point A and point B so you could give a true exact answer. One interesting thing is you gave an answer, that your thoughts move too fast to give an answer. So your thought, "I can't give an answer," moved slow enough you could relay it?


I love the contradictions and abstractions in thought. It's like an Alice in Wonderland world. Things like, "I have no beliefs! I believe this 100%! My thoughts are moving too fast in my mind! I can't see what they say! (Which is a thought you are seeing very clearly.) I don't hold on to any of my thoughts..... except that one, that you don't hold onto thoughts....???
Thought is amazing in how it can keep the attention focused on it while pretending not to. But as a tool to help raise awareness and intelligence it is very effective.
There's a famous Zen story.

Perhaps one do not need to think just to realize Buddhism......." to think" is an action of mind that involve many factor like emotion / feeling / experience
s / knowledge...and thinking normally will presented with option ....let say if one saw a hungry cat , if one uses his thoughts , one will presented with many reasoning which involved knowledge / emotion / experience / gossip / feeling before making conclusion whether to help the cat or not ... one sees option if uses his thought .....but if one awaken to Buddhism , one just realized and just helping the cat as he realize the cat is him without any reason as he see no option ... is natural to help .....
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[sky]

CSEe, you say " Buddhism " is not knowledge " have you not learned anything from the Buddha's teachings ?

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

CSEe, you say " Buddhism " is not knowledge " have you not learned anything from the Buddha's teachings ?

Is a piece of sand not a part of an ocean ?.............Flour is not a cake , a cake is consist of flour ..Mr Siddharta is a great source of gossip is same as the action of Osama , same as the nature of a pen on the table ...is all reflecting your emotion ...is all condition for own realization ....all could be a factor of realization if only one awake , aware , realize , accept and continue to aware.....

Mr Siddharta's words is never a referral to Buddhism but if one attached to it , one emotion will increase and mind will be larger ......as mind becoming larger , one will travel longer journey to realize the mind itself and suffering is the nature of this path .......

[RyanWind]

This part makes sense to me:

Originally Posted by CSEe

Mr Siddharta...is all condition for own realization ....all could be a factor of realization if only one...realize , accept

In other words, Buddha's words, Buddhism is one possible condition for leading one to self-realization....but one must realize the true meanings, experience it.

I kind of get what you are saying about needing more than teachings, I would say that's personal insights, but I think some of the problem may be English is not your main language. A word like "gossip" has negative meanings in English. It means idle talk or rumor, especially about the personal or private affairs of others, spreading hurtful lies about others. So when you say:

Originally Posted by CSEe

Mr Siddharta is a great source of gossip...

In English, you are saying Buddha's words are hurtful lies and untruths, malicious rumors. Is that what you were trying to say?

[sky]

Buddhas teachings are more than gossip, they go beyond gossip.

You do not become attached to them but use them as tools, the "Raft Parable " explains this in very simple terms.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Oh is this true too?

That is what currently as I realize it , is not true or false...


CSEe words is never a referral to Buddhism ...if one attached to it , one emotion will increase and mind will be larger ......

or this?

RyanWind words is never a referral to Buddhism ...if one attached to it , one emotion will increase and mind will be larger ......

[color="Blue"]this is what I realized it .......if one use something as referral , one emotion will developed into it , forming into it and becoming it .......and this will lead to suffering as you are resisting a natural process of awakening to the emotion itself by developing more emotions ....

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddhas teachings are more than gossip, they go beyond gossip.

You do not become attached to them but use them as tools, the "Raft Parable " explains this in very simple terms.

Perhaps you could further explain it

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddhas teachings are more than gossip, they go beyond gossip.

You do not become attached to them but use them as tools, the "Raft Parable " explains this in very simple terms.

Perhaps you could further explain it