Suicide and the afterlife....

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by soulforce

It's very interesting that souls on the other side can communicate with intent.

Edgar Cayce is one of the most documented mystics/psychics of our time and his readings delve into communication with the departed souls when they are receptive before moving on. (This is not surprising if one understands the principle of telepathy where the body is not needed for communication to take place.)

[soulforce]

Perhaps you didn't express yourself clearly then.

I think I did since I've already mentioned that I'm talking about the soul. If you require clarification now you have it. When I stated before that consciousness is continuous it's in relation to the soul.

Yet I thought I was, relating on what you'd written.....

Yes I believe that you thought you were too, but I'm telling you that you weren't.

My 'specialty' is apparently what you're wanting to talk about but the death process involves the very essence of our being - the way that a spirit animates the physical body and returns whence it came - that marks the death of the body. It's an essential part of overall understanding in my view, incomplete without it.

I want you to offer a simple explanation on what"animates the physical body" means. Use either evidence or logic to support your position. Assume I will never take your word for it.

OOBs don't have a great deal of interest for me.

Why?

I've been studying that for well over 30 years, writing online about it for about 15, many of those years here on SF

You might have an academic understanding of death, but do you have first hand experience with death? Have you been scientific in your approach to studying death or are you just a philosopher? Saying that you have 30 years of experience doesn't offer any insight as to your qualifications as an expert - if that's what you're alluding too. It sounds like I'm downplaying your knowledge but I'm a skeptic at heart and I never take people at their word. I've learned that on the internet that's a bad policy.

I don't pay much attention to near-death events as I think they show very little for someone who already understands about life, death and what follows. And I don't find anything I write about as esoteric. With respect I have again to say that NDEs are not actual death, the cessation of incarnate life. You shouldn't rely on learning about what happens after death from someone who hasn't died.

Where do you get your knowledge on death and "what follows" from? If the information that you share is only understood by a small group of people, that's being esoteric. I would like you to explain your position -using the assumption - that it's not common knowledge. Souls who communicate through mediums report the same kind of information as the people who experience NDE's. This shows at least a potential corollary that we should explore. As well since your position on death isn't fully explained, I'm not sure your in a position to argue with science.

I read your words - am I responsible for misunderstanding or are you responsible for not writing sufficiently clearly?

Obviously it's both. I believe I have explained myself sufficiently and clearly. The evidence is that others don't experience the same state of confusion that you do.

The logical conclusion is that it's probably just you. However if there is something that you don't understand, ask questions - like I have.

Everything I've learned about death and the afterlife came from other people: my connection to spirit, the stories I've read and the dialogue I've had with other people on this forum.

I believe we all possess the same knowledge, because we all have access to the same source. Most of us have forgotten our connection to source hence why we have different degrees of understanding. However people who have had near death experiences, remind us of our connection to source. The information that they've brought back with them IMO is greater than any theoretical conclusion about life after death.

Hence why would any person who "specializes" in death and "what follows" discounts the experience of the people who've been closes to it? From a scientific perspective, that makes no sense to me.

[soulforce]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Edgar Cayce is one of the most documented mystics/psychics of our time and his readings delve into communication with the departed souls when they are receptive before moving on. (This is not surprising if one understands the principle of telepathy where the body is not needed for communication to take place.)

This area does interest me. Thank you for the referral.

all the best

sf

[soulforce]

Originally Posted by markings

How can NDE introduce one to survival beyond death? IMO NDEs, by definition being only near death, how near is anyone's guess, have nothing to say about complete and total death.

Because the desire for self-preservation is an evolutionary adaptation that has no intrinsic value on the other side. Your body dies not you.

Originally Posted by soulforce

I think I did since I've already mentioned that I'm talking about the soul. If you require clarification now you have it. When I stated before that consciousness is continuous it's in relation to the soul.

And now I understand.

Yes I believe that you thought you were too, but I'm telling you that you weren't.

mea culpa

I want you to offer a simple explanation on what"animates the physical body" means. Use either evidence or logic to support your position. Assume I will never take your word for it.

A simple explanation wouldn't work satisfactorily and as I said earlier somewhere here, I don't have the energy to write volumes nowadays.

Why?

OOBs? They have no importance for me.

You might have an academic understanding of death, but do you have first hand experience with death?

yes - Do you?

Have you been scientific in your approach to studying death or are you just a philosopher?

I'm an ex-scientist by profession, and someone for whom a scientific, analytical approach comes naturally. I leave philosophy to philosophers.

Saying that you have 30 years of experience doesn't offer any insight as to your qualifications as an expert - if that's what you're alluding too. It sounds like I'm downplaying your knowledge but I'm a skeptic at heart and I never take people at their word. I've learned that on the internet that's a bad policy.

I understand and you're right to be sceptical.

Where do you get your knowledge on death and "what follows" from? If the information that you share is only understood by a small group of people, that's being esoteric.

I agree about your last point but I know nothing that isn't available to anyone who looks for it. I have no arcane knowledge about anything.

I would like you to explain your position -using the assumption - that it's not common knowledge.

I hope I've scotched that idea.

Souls who communicate through mediums report the same kind of information as the people who experience NDE's.

But those experiencing an NDE do not necessarily have the depth or breadth of experience as some - not all - discarnates who communicate via mediumship.

This shows at least a potential corollary that we should explore.

You might also want to consider the one above.

As well since your position on death isn't fully explained, I'm not sure your in a position to argue with science.

snap! Right back atcha.

Obviously it's both. I believe I have explained myself sufficiently and clearly. The evidence is that others don't experience the same state of confusion that you do.

Perhaps they're less probing, less challenging, about what you write? I'm not confused merely seeking to clarify when things aren't clear to me.

The logical conclusion is that it's probably just you. However if there is something that you don't understand, ask questions - like I have.

I've been asking questions of you all the time but perhaps you didn't recognise what I've done. I'm comfortable in accepting it's me whatever point you were meaning - kinda gets lost in all these words.....

Everything I've learned about death and the afterlife came from other people: my connection to spirit, the stories I've read and the dialogue I've had with other people on this forum.

snap!

I believe we all possess the same knowledge, because we all have access to the same source.

We may all have the potential to access the source of knowledge but can we all use that potential effectively? And having knowledge doesn't mean we're necessarily able to take full advantage without working at it - I speak from personal experience - I'm no exception.

Most of us have forgotten our connection to source hence why we have different degrees of understanding.

agree - Isn't that the nature of life incarnate? An apparent separation from source? But differeing degrees of conscious understanding can come about for numerous reasons - not solely because we've lost sight of our connection.

However people who have had near death experiences, remind us of our connection to source. The information that they've brought back with them IMO is greater than any theoretical conclusion about life after death.

I totally respect your right to hold that opinion.

Hence why would any person who "specializes" in death and "what follows" discounts the experience of the people who've been closes to it? From a scientific perspective, that makes no sense to me.

Perhaps, then, it might help you to stand back a little or look from a different direction? Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. I speak from personal experience - been there, done that.....

[soulforce]

A simple explanation wouldn't work satisfactorily and as I said earlier somewhere here, I don't have the energy to write volumes nowadays.

If directionary.com were to add this phrase to the lexicon, how would it read?

OOBs? They have no importance for me.

Why?

yes - Do you?

What's your experience with death?

I'm an ex-scientist by profession, and someone for whom a scientific, analytical approach comes naturally.

Great. Me too. You said once that there is no law that proves the sky is blue. Do you still prescribe to this belief?

I agree about your last point but I know nothing that isn't available to anyone who looks for it. I have no arcane knowledge about anything.

Does that include the internet?

Quote:
I would like you to explain your position -using the assumption - that it's not common knowledge.

I hope I've scotched that idea.

Nope.

But those experiencing an NDE do not necessarily have the depth or breadth of experience as some - not all - discarnates who communicate via mediumship.

How do you know?

Quote:
As well since your position on death isn't fully explained, I'm not sure your in a position to argue with science.

snap! Right back atcha.

Ad Hominem (Tu quoque)

Perhaps they're less probing, less challenging, about what you write? I'm not confused merely seeking to clarify when things aren't clear to me.

I'm fine with that, but just challenge me on the ideas or claims that I presented not the ones that I didn't. If you're unclear about something just ask. When you're unclear about something, you're confused - according to the dictionary.

I've been asking questions of you all the time but perhaps you didn't recognise what I've done. I'm comfortable in accepting it's me whatever point you were meaning - kinda gets lost in all these words.....

I've recognize what you've done. I disagree that your questions were on point. You've asked me questions about other issues yes.

Everything I've learned about death and the afterlife came from other people: my connection to spirit, the stories I've read and the dialogue I've had with other people on this forum.

snap!

Oh boy

We may all have the potential to access the source of knowledge but can we all use that potential effectively? And having knowledge doesn't mean we're necessarily able to take full advantage without working at it - I speak from personal experience - I'm no exception.

Truth.

Perhaps, then, it might help you to stand back a little or look from a different direction? Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. I speak from personal experience - been there, done that.....

You're implying that I wasn't willing to listen to you but that's not true at all. I was merely trying to get you to stay on point. We all speak from personal experiences - been there, done that sort of thing - but it's not an unreasonable expectation that two probing minds stay on point.

I've never claimed to know, which is why I'm willing to consider NDE's as potentially useful tool in the description of an afterlife. I'm a skeptic not a cynic.

Originally Posted by soulforce

If directionary.com were to add this phrase to the lexicon, how would it read?



Why?

............................ point. We all speak from personal experiences - been there, done that sort of thing - but it's not an unreasonable expectation that two probing minds stay on point.

I've never claimed to know, which is why I'm willing to consider NDE's as potentially useful tool in the description of an afterlife. I'm a skeptic not a cynic.

I realise I'm a fascinating character (others have told me that ) and, based on your continued questioning, it seems you'd like to learn more about me.

But this thread's not about me or my attributes and - with respect - I have no interest in continuing in this vein. My only interest is in the subject of this thread (and any other) and the associated points that get raised.

I'm going to focus now on the thread topic. I'm sure you'll understand.

[Colorado]

Originally Posted by Rayden_Greywolf

So, I find myself very upset with most people's theories on what happens to a soul after a suicide. People are quick to point out the grave consequences, such as being born again almost immediately with extra karmic baggage, or how it damages one's soul very badly. Rarely do they talk about recovery or love. I know personally this lack of understanding and compassion tends to make my feelings seem "wrong" or invalid. This has me wondering: What really happens to the soul after suicide? Is it really all gloom and doom?

No, of course not.

It's what you decide. I personally, was made aware of a past life suicide..and yes it was because of being reborn and the extra baggage.

You have to understand though, this was a past life long ago....I have had other lives after that, I didn't go through it right away.
I went through it when I chose to go through it again.

You see, what is done in life on Earth, is seen differently than in the spiritual or energetic world. I've there, we can see the benefit to redoing it over....here, we just see it as struggle and punishment. It's not punishment.

Take for example. You get out of shape, and you need to exercise for 6 months, and diet...and you have to change your lifestyle, because your goal is to lose 50 lbs.

It's not going to happen easily...you gotta sweat, work out, build your muscles, watch what you eat or eat more healthy. It's alot of work, and can test your faith in yourself, and your ability to reach your goal. So many people give up, but the goal is reachable.

That is how suicide works. That's how life works. You will always try to reach your goals, and it can take a long time...you will probably crash and burn several times until you start building up what it takes to over in those shortcomings, insecurities, lifestyle, ECT. to make better choices for yourself.

Now apply that to your emotional well being, your mental attitude, and your spiritual life....then you will see what I mean.
There's nothing here you can't overcome, if you know the truth...and your self worth.

These lessons are taught so that you can love yourself, and know your self worth. It's how you become stronger spiritual ly...but it doesn't usually happen in one lifetime.

[Rayden_Greywolf]

Originally Posted by Colorado

No, of course not.

It's what you decide. I personally, was made aware of a past life suicide..and yes it was because of being reborn and the extra baggage.

You have to understand though, this was a past life long ago....I have had other lives after that, I didn't go through it right away.
I went through it when I chose to go through it again.

You see, what is done in life on Earth, is seen differently than in the spiritual or energetic world. I've there, we can see the benefit to redoing it over....here, we just see it as struggle and punishment. It's not punishment.

Take for example. You get out of shape, and you need to exercise for 6 months, and diet...and you have to change your lifestyle, because your goal is to lose 50 lbs.

It's not going to happen easily...you gotta sweat, work out, build your muscles, watch what you eat or eat more healthy. It's alot of work, and can test your faith in yourself, and your ability to reach your goal. So many people give up, but the goal is reachable.

That is how suicide works. That's how life works. You will always try to reach your goals, and it can take a long time...you will probably crash and burn several times until you start building up what it takes to over in those shortcomings, insecurities, lifestyle, ECT. to make better choices for yourself.

Now apply that to your emotional well being, your mental attitude, and your spiritual life....then you will see what I mean.
There's nothing here you can't overcome, if you know the truth...and your self worth.

These lessons are taught so that you can love yourself, and know your self worth. It's how you become stronger spiritual ly...but it doesn't usually happen in one lifetime.

Wait, are you saying that the past life suicide was caused by the extra karmic baggage? Maybe I misunderstood you.

I guess I just don't see the worth in all this pain and suffering. I'm frustrated and angry that we would be put through such painful lessons. Its at the root of my depression and why I'm suicidal.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Rayden_Greywolf

Wait, are you saying that the past life suicide was caused by the extra karmic baggage? Maybe I misunderstood you.

I guess I just don't see the worth in all this pain and suffering. I'm frustrated and angry that we would be put through such painful lessons. Its at the root of my depression and why I'm suicid forum rule prohibiting posting comments like thial.

First, there is as. You need to seek professional help if that's truly the case.

Past that, it is your frustration and anger that is the problem here, and not anything else: not life, not pain in life, not God (some people blame God for goodness sake), and not even depression. You need to deal with your frustration and anger, period.

Now the tricky part is dealing with frustration and anger while you're depressed. It requires engaging; it takes a real and sincere effort to examine your feelings and why you feel that way. Which is very hard to do, because depression keeps us from engaging in life. If you can't do it on your own, you need to seek therapy; someone to help you with that. Which, from what you wrote here, sounds like the best idea for you anyway.