Is there any Evidence that Astral Projection isn't just Imaginary

How do you all not fall asleep while trying to astral project???

Don't try at bed time, find something to focus on that you can keep focusing on while your body 'shuts down' for the night (hence why some people use white noise, music, hold something in their hand...etc) and also ensure that when you hit sleep paralysis that you eyes aren't open and that your not thinking about something unrelated to whats happening (as that is the easiest way to end up stuck in your own head and dreaming.)

A bit of reference as to my own terminology and distinctions between lucid dreaming, obe, ap and normal dreams is as follows.

- OBE - stepping out of ones own body in the physical world itself (which is also partially remote viewing) and into alternate semi-physical layers of the physical world itself. Roughly 80% of a persons conscious awareness/mind is involved with a small amount of ones own energy on the side (to aid movement and give the mind a sense of orientation because the energy gives the impression of 'mass' or weight that otherwise would not be there.)

-AP - stepping out of body as a spirit into alternate dimensions or 'spirit worlds.' That means mostly energy and soul is involved, and a small portion of the physical consciousness occasionally goes with it which enables some form of clear recall upon return. often the conscious mind can shut down before then though, hence why most people are **** at recalling what they did during ap, yet they somehow *know* they aped anyway.)

-Lucid dreaming - the act of dreaming with a conscious waking awareness and with the influence of the spirit and energy on the side (so such dreams can include things that are outside or beyond the scope of said individuals conscious awareness, which is usually when people get spiritual epiphanies and such. )

Normal dreaming - being within your own mind and experiencing the subconscious working out ones own conscious life issues or thoughts that are left over from the day or in conjunction with personal memories/interests.

Dreamwalking - a place between astral and the physical world, a conjoined dreamworld consciousness, a bit like spiritual internet. This is what is often confused as being the astral world, but in reality it is more of a mash up of the contents of every conscious mind in existence currently. In order to get here you need to lucid dream, then obe...and generally only through this dreamscape can most people access the astral world after that (not to say some cant just 'blip' themselves straight into the spirit world directly.)

You can choose to take my labeling and whatever if you want, or just go with everyone else mushing terms together. Hopefully this is of use to someone.

[amylou]

Originally Posted by Eilam

Ok, I'm back

All of the replies appear to be saying basically one of the following things:

- There are a lot of factors that complicate the process of gathering and assessing evidence for astral projection (Sangress's post condensed)
-You have to try it for yourself to know it's real
- Astral projection feels different from imagination or lucid dreams
- A few suggestions that real and imaginary are indistinguishable or that it doesn't make a difference
- We're trying to assess a 4th/5th dimension phenomenon according to 3d standards
- Maybe we're all in the matrix ("There is not much evidence that where you are reading this post isn't just imaginary")

In the meantime, I've actually tried astral projection 2 times. So it's not that I don't see any potential in it at all, it would just be nice if there were some way to be sure I'm not simply playing tricks on my own mind. Both tries were unsuccessful (I fell asleep...) but I do plan to keep trying to gain some experience with it to make my own assessments.

But I actually was unaware of many of the problems that Sangress mentioned, such as the lack of distinction between AP/dreams/OBEs. I have read people using AP and OBE interchangeably, and was confused because I thought they were different, but I just assumed that I was missing something. I've also seldom seen AP and lucid dreaming used interchangeably as terms. So thank you for that.

I'm not going to address the other suggestions, simply because they can't possibly be covered in this thread...whether there is a difference between what is real and imagined could make an entire tome. So could whether there are 4 dimensions or 5 or 278, and whether we're all in the matrix. Which leaves only experimentation with it myself as the only practical answer.

It was my hope that someone would present some experiment or study that I had missed, but unfortunately we don't have that yet.

Thanks for your replies, and I shall end with one question: How do you all not fall asleep while trying to astral project???

It works best for me early in the morning like around 4 to 5. In fact, this morning I woke up and it almost happened but I fell back asleep. I'd say set your alarm for around 3-4 am and when it goes off, get up and go to the bathroom, sit on the couch for a few minutes, and then go back to bed and try then.

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

Because it's only going to be real for the person experiencing it. Technology can't prove or disprove it, other people can't prove or disprove it to one another. The only thing that can prove or disprove it is experiencing it yourself and performing your own tests and studies.

And ironically, that's exactly how our perception of this physical reality works as well. Most people don't really put enough thought into it to consider that notion.

I also don't expect a great deal of people to understand what I just said.

All just saying "I have astral projected" is just saying it. It only means that someone thinks they have or that they are lying about it. People think and lie about all kinds of things, but that does not mean it is true. For all I know we are all just astral projections, or maybe it is just a weird theory someone made.

What intrigues me the more is that what is the essence that allows one to think and make our ideas and thoughts?

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Eilam

AP and OBE interchangeably

OBE is (any) Out of Body Experience. AP (Astral Projection) is one type of OBE and by far the most common spontaneous type. The other major method is called phasing (mental projection). There are many types. They vary principally in what aspects of you are projected and if those aspects are duplicated (one stays with body, other is projected). Techniques for initiating each type varies considerably but that has a minor effect on the actual experience.

Originally Posted by Eilam

How do you all not fall asleep while trying to astral project???

Most importantly don't practice near bedtime.

Also a reclining rather than laying position reduces falling asleep somewhat. Full sitting is not recommended for beginners as you can fall over or even out of your chair. When you fully project it seems way shorter than the actual time that passes where your body is. Having your body in a fixed position for 20+ minutes can be make it rather achy and cramped if you were not in a comfortable position.

Another way is to practice phasing (ref: Robert Monroe) rather than astral travel. Phasing is done while you are awake. Note that phasing completely solves the remembering problem but can be very confusing as you are consciously aware of two places at once.

[CrystalSong]

Phasing....that grabs me...what is it exactly?

I ask because I do several forms, one which I call 'Moving my Consciousness', and it can be a small as an atom and go into the smallest crystals and they appear as big as cathedrals. This I see as almost an advanced version of Remote Viewing but it's clearer and the time in one place can perceived as long whereas RV needs to be very short 1.7 seconds to return with solid results and no over-lay from the egoaic mind which likes to add details to that which it can't quite fully discern.

The other form I call Etheric Travel because the body is perceived as roughly normal sized but rather intangible and able to pass through walls, the density of earth or even out into space and other dimensions, and into what we call the Ashkaic Record or Mass Collective Recorded Unconsciousness of all 'time' on earth. It is possible to see hands and feet and such in this form, but they are more Essence than Substance. It is also possible to fit inside others and experience what they experience. When reviewing a past life one finds themself in the most unexpected bodies and situations for example.

In both forms I am aware of sounds/smells where the physical body is located at but as a background white noise, but can still receive anything that would need my consciousness to return to the body to defend/protect the body. In both forms telephathy seems to be the communication form used by all beings to communicate.

In neither form of traveling however can I feel wind, smell things, have the sensation of being x amount of feet above the ground or any of the more physical sensations I've had during flying dreams which I understand as astro projection.

While what I do is perhaps not as viscerally satisfying as AP I'm able to do it this form of movement at will for the most part, let's say 85% of the time it is my clear intention to do so during a meditation.

So I'm very curious to know if what you are calling Phasing fits either of the above descriptions or is yet another way to leave our body behind and go places it can not go due to physical restraints caused by it being a product of the 3rd dimensional world?

I do believe in the possibility of Astral Projection. After experiencing sleep paralysis first hand I have no doubt that there are spirits among us. When experiencing sleep paralysis (or old hag syndrome) its very realistic. Not like anything I've ever imagined before. I have never experienced any dream that was even close to what I felt. Astral Projection must have something to it.

[psychoslice]

I have never seen any evidence for Astral Projection yet, so I am just neutral.

[CrystalSong]

Neutral is good. It's not as earth shaking of a stance when/if it does happen to you. Whereas flat out disbelieving or discounting AP (and other forms) can be a very hard mental adjustment when it suddenly happens and disproves all formerly held precepts.
Neutral is good. =D

[wstein]

Phasing the term coined by Robert Monroe (ref: Monroe Institute) to refer to his form of mental projection. In mental projection a portion of your awareness and energy body is projected. This creates a second stream of sensory input. The usual inputs from the body continue. The second awareness is projected along with the normal and extrasensory senses. The projected point of awareness has a slight energy signature but no physical form (unless you can source enough energy to make one). Since there is no duplicate body, energy is key to 'powering' perception. The more energy you can source the more complete the sensory experience of the projection will be. As at least a portion of your energy body also travels, you can use any energy skills you have at both locations. Running low/out of energy terminates the projection. There are no exit vibrations, scary monsters to greet you, and no difficulty remembering what you experience. As you have no physical like form, interacting with the locals is difficult. Phasing is also confusing to beginners as it is not always easy to deal with two complete sensory streams. For that reason, a quiet location and a stationary position is usually adopted.

Robert had a somewhat scientific approach and documented specific locations, modes of sensory input, and exact techniques how to get there. Each combination is known as a 'focus' and are numbered for easy reference. Much has been written on the subject with books and a website available for those interested.

Robert also developed the Hemisync device that uses a bi-aural beat audio (sound) program on CDs to take people to each focus. This device can allow you to have the experience fairly quickly but is in no way required. There are some downsides to Hemisync however. First you don't learn to project on your own. Second, though there are extensive library of programs, you can only go to foci for which CDs have been made. Lastly, it’s kind of expensive.

Disclaimer: I use my own form of mental projection, not the Monroe technique. I have very limited experience with Hemisync and the Monroe technique. The above should not be taken as an endorsement for or against said products.