Jesus is not God

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

People refer to Jesus as God
and the one who created Jesus as God.

I would say Mary created Jesus. The body anyway. She did give birth to him. She named him as well I assume or Joseph named him.

Luke2:7 "And she gave birth to her firstborn son. And she wrapped Him in swaddling-cloths, and laid Him in a manger."

I think Jesus answered the question about God himself:

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

and

John 7:16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

So where does all the confusion come from? Jesus states he is not God above.

Maybe from quotes like this:

John 8:19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also."

Some would say, oh that means Jesus is God. If you know one you know the other. Others would say it only means Jesus was perfectly manifesting God's nature, unconditional love, non-judgment (Jesus sure judged the Jewish leaders though.)

So who said Jesus was God if not Jesus? His followers did! The ones creating a new religion after Jesus ascended off this planet. They said Jesus was God.

John 20:28 “Thomas said in response, 'My Lord and my God! '” John 21:17 [Peter said,] “Lord, you know everything….” Colossians 2:9 “In Christ the fullness of deity resides in bodily form.” Colossians 1:15+16 “He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creatures.

[Miss Hepburn]

I would think back then...they didn't know where the sun went, what stars were, comets, electricity...
so a man that did all the things Jesus did and spoke with such authority would be considered God,
does not surprise me.

I read a lot - and a lot of channeling from Yeshua ...seems he is still doing what he did all the time while here..
pointing to the Father. :)

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Colossians 1:15+16 “He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creatures.

That scripture seems to imply Jesus was the first born of creation. In Christianity, some claim a lot of scriptures were fulfilled when Jesus died.
Those thoughts imply Jesus was created and when in the flesh, actually died. How are those thoughts reconciled If Jesus was actually God?

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

How are those thoughts reconciled If Jesus was actually God?

My belief is consciousness, awareness, whatever one calls this experience of "being" or that which "is this" or "am I" or "does this" has a very complex structure and amazing abilities.

A metaphor for me would be take something like an orange the fruit. An orange is made up of individual atoms. Scientists say there are over a million atoms in an orange. A million individual atoms all together make an orange.

I think trillions or more "atoms" (using a metaphor) of consciousness make up God. I think every soul is like one "atom" of God. I think everything that is conscious or aware has a particle of God with varying aspects of God. So to me Jesus and all conscious life is God. The temporary physical forms these conscious "atoms" reside in are not God in my opinion. It is matter which has a lower vibrational frequency than God in my view.

To me, spirit is in this physical world. To me, spirit is not physical but resides within the physical. I see our true selves, awareness, as spirit. Though it does seem to have a weight. At the exact moment of death, you, me, and everyone else, will lose precisely 21g in weight. Perhaps the weight of one "atom" of God.

Originally Posted by Maisy

I would say Mary created Jesus. .

I have confusion about Mary…..specifically because of these scriptures:

John 19:25-27
Matthew 12:46-50
John 2:1-5
John 20:13-16

I see detachment when Jesus addresses her as ‘woman’…why not instead as ‘mother’ which would be more intimate ? It gives rise to Gnostic beliefs of a celestial mother which points to Sophia understandings. And why in 20:16 would Mary recognize him as Rabboni ? Furthermore why does the John 19 scripture identify his mothers sister as being named Mary ? Would it have common to give sisters the same name ? For me this all adds up to something which raises question marks. By the way in John 20 Jesus tells ‘Mary’ that he is returning to his Father and identifies Him as also being her father.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Furthermore why does the John 19 scripture identify his mothers sister as being named Mary ? Would it have common to give sisters the same name ? For me this all adds up to something which raises question marks.

'Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.'

Mary the Wife of Clopas is supposedly the 'Sister in Law' of Mary the Mother...


In John 2:4 The Greek for Woman does not denote any disrespect.


[Quote Mo] "And why in 20:16 would Mary recognize him as Rabboni ? "

John 20 is referring to Mary Magdalena who recognized Jesus as Rabboni (Teacher), not Mary His Mother....

[Honza]

Jesus is God enough to help me enormously, unlike any other beings who claim to be God or who are claimed to be God.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Honza

Jesus is God enough to help me enormously, unlike any other beings who claim to be God or who are claimed to be God.

Curious, is that because you pray to Jesus?
If so, have you prayed to anyone else?
Krishna claimed to be God...have you ever prayed to him...to be able to know?
Your logic seems to be if someone helps you enormously he is God enough.

[Honza]

I have prayed and bowed down to all manner of beings - from Sathya Sai Baba, to Krishna to Yahveh, to the Goddess etc.

Jesus seems to be the only one who is 'there' or is listening.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Honza

I have prayed and bowed down to all manner of beings - from Sathya Sai Baba, to Krishna to Yahveh, to the Goddess etc.
Jesus seems to be the only one who is 'there' or is listening.

Thanks.
You answered my question exactly!