The spiritual conversation is difficult, and therefore, skillful

[naturesflow]

I AM GOING OFF TANGENT ITS TIME TO REFOCUS ON THE OP.

Originally Posted by Gem

When we speak of the spiritual dimension of life, there is something truthful occurring within us as we explore deeper in ourselves.

Yes I agree.

Even though it's not a personal conversation, but a topical conversation, the nature of the subject requires us to be aware of our inner arisings, and it requires skills to move through these.

Yes I have noticed myself throughout this thread and now regrouping myself as I noticed so much has arisen and I need to move differently now, more conscious of myself aware of others and myself.

If we talk about nice things, joke about and so forth, it's all smooth sailing because no one is required to encounter what is true of themselves. But the spiritual conversation reveals home truths, and that, as we already know, can be a stormy sea.

I think this hit home now in me. All jokes aside I am now getting down to serious business, reflecting on my past responses and taking a really good look at myself in all that.

If we speak seriously about the spiritual subject we are talking about the deepest aspect of ourselves, and therefore we encounter obstacles that 'stand in the way' so to speak. As navigating such obstacles requires a careful and gentle way, we would go about things in a similar way as we would thread a very fine needle. Just as this delicate task requires fullness of attention and care, so too does the 'spiritual task' I allude to.

I haven't been very gentle but I will investigate myself deeper as to why I go off on this little phases and tangents when I let go and let fly. Its funny though I feel like I was giving full attention, but I think my care factor was a little skewed.

Rather than being nice and comfortable, this sort of discourse is truthful, and that can be discomforting because each one faces their own home truths. No one faces the home truths of anyone else, so psychoanalysing, accusing, and 'you language' in general does no good for anyone, and only presents risks of harm. Caveat being, complimentary remarks can be encouraging.

I was being really truthful and upfront actually, but more about others than myself. Sometimes I find its good to air your feelings and what you see going on and then come back and self reflect on what is really going on in myself. So I do. I suppose I could give more compliments. But Gem I cant fake them. I have to feel them for real before I can. I don't give up though. I will give people lots of chances, but if I smell a rat, sometimes I lose focus on myself. But it doesn't take long to come back to myself. I think I failed at the "you" bit for quite a few posts. Please forgive me!

As we speak more deeply on the spiritual dimension of us, we are bound to hit on obstacles which hold emotional contents in ourselves, which makes it a difficult topic, so it requires our best skills, both in how we transverse our inner worlds, and in our expressed conversation.

Ok I see now where I failed miserably, I am going to really give this next stage my best shot. Take some time out and reflect tomorrow, walk in nature and read a little, not be over enthusiastic and find my middle ground again. I like the middle path. I should go find it again.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Eelco

I'm not.
But why should the fact that I am offended bother you? It hasn't before. What changed? An intention maybe?

If you want to know
It's on my profile page..

With Love
Eelco

Im going to look and see if I was close..lol Goodnight.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Eelco

I'm not.
But why should the fact that I am offended bother you? It hasn't before. What changed? An intention maybe?

If you want to know
It's on my profile page..

With Love
Eelco

Omgoodness I was close..yay! lol

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I haven't been very gentle but I will investigate myself deeper as to why I go off on this little phases and tangents when I let go and let fly. Its funny though I feel like I was giving full attention, but I think my care factor was a little skewed.

Ok I see now where I failed miserably, I am going to really give this next stage my best shot. Take some time out and reflect tomorrow, walk in nature and read a little, not be over enthusiastic and find my middle ground again. I like the middle path. I should go find it again.

This is a far more relate-able posting.

So you let go - felt emotion - made jokes ... that's good.

We can care with all of our heart AND be brutally honest at times.

That way of being may not suit you for some reason & thats perfectly fine but - perhaps you might have a window into the freeing nature of it a little.

~

One note perhaps is that Eelco & I are parents - perhaps it's that we have learned lessons the hard way & wish to cushion the blow for others ...

Perhaps it's all of the above & more.

I don't believe that negativity actually plays a part in this less regal tone - it's just perceived as such because the regal nature is expected.

It's easy to fake anything, the why anyone would is a different story but outward & inward deceptions are damaging.

That's all I've ever said.

.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Raziel

This is a far more relate-able posting.

So you let go - felt emotion - made jokes ... that's good.

We can care with all of our heart AND be brutally honest at times.

That way of being may not suit you for some reason & thats perfectly fine but - perhaps you might have a window into the freeing nature of it a little.

~

One note perhaps is that Eelco & I are parents - perhaps it's that we have learned lessons the hard way & wish to cushion the blow for others ...

Perhaps it's all of the above & more.

I don't believe that negativity actually plays a part in this less regal tone - it's just perceived as such because the regal nature is expected.

It's easy to fake anything, the why anyone would is a different story but outward & inward deceptions are damaging.

That's all I've ever said.

.

Softening suits you.

Parenting suits me.

Originally Posted by Raziel

This is a far more relate-able posting.

So you let go - felt emotion - made jokes ... that's good.

We can care with all of our heart AND be brutally honest at times.

That way of being may not suit you for some reason & thats perfectly fine but - perhaps you might have a window into the freeing nature of it a little.

~

.

You sir. Are kinder than I am.

With Love
Eelco

[naturesflow]

That way of being may not suit you for some reason & thats perfectly fine but - perhaps you might have a window into the freeing nature of it a little.

I think your believing its something new for me to walk this walk you insist is the way to be over other ways suggested by others. I have been down this stream and opened this window to free my true self, not as something I need to retain, but be aware of as I am and can be. It is not something new for me so as you might perceive in your response, it wasn't some kind of practice run to show me how to be freer. I am being myself aware and free through any stream I choose. I don't have to box myself into your way anymore over other ways. All ways serve me as I need to be aware. Gems way is true to my true nature as well, I am very conscious of myself through the whole stream and each step as important to the process of freedom to be yourself as you wish to be.

I don't pocket myself into one way of being.

SO my point for coming back to make note upon your comment is that, sometimes freedom's face is not what you think it is and needs to be. Sometimes freedom is being shown to you through another way that encompasses more than you see alone.

The key is don't be fooled by what you think another is and not.

I am a parent and a older than you. Sometimes age does correlate to the nature of a more experienced life and journey. There is always more even as you see freedom to be in the way you see. I learned that lesson and took on board much of what Gem is modelling. I didn't seek it out through a superior model, I grew into that space through the process of deeper and more mindful conscious awareness through my life experiences. When I hear people speak like it is people being and acting superior in this way aware, I have to wonder why? It isn't something superior, its a point of awareness that can be seen and accepted as true to the awareness of all life as it experiences itself aware. Sometimes using that approach is important to the nature of what you might be dealing with in your life experience. As does humour and light heartedness, as does emotional release or venting. Gems way fits into the whole stream of my freedom as your view is highlighting. The only difference between you both is Gem is not fighting for it, or showing such strong aversion to your way, he is modelling what he knows is valid to the life experience and awareness through the whole stream of what we as humans can be more mindful and conscious of.

Why does Cindy Laupers true colors come to mind?

With Love
Eelco

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Why does Cindy Laupers true colors come to mind?

With Love
Eelco

It's choice.

The power to choose is perceived as power itself by those without it.

The notion of "being" to some it seems is taking a natural honest reaction or response, choosing to flip it & not do.

Kind of like a spiritual diet.

The anorexic sees nothing wrong with their extreme interpretation of health & nutrition - I don't see this type of attitude as any different.


.

Originally Posted by Raziel

It's choice.

The power to choose is perceived as power itself by those without it.

The notion of "being" to some it seems is taking a natural honest reaction or response, choosing to flip it & not do.

Kind of like a spiritual diet.

The anorexic sees nothing wrong with their extreme interpretation of health & nutrition - I don't see this type of attitude as any different.


.

Is it a choice? The anorexic doesn't necessarily choose to be one.

Why do people take their natural impulses and subdue them in a spiritual toxic sauce.
Surely not by choice..

I fear a form off blindness sets in at some point. A way to cope with the mundane goo that makes up most of life and trying to spice it up a little.

A spoon full of sugar to make the reality go down.
Feeling very Mary Poppins right now.

With Love
Eelco