Self Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Intention of sharing has many complexities within and of itself.

You slipped but did you really, or is this push to teach the knowledge part of this mindset you still hold.

The experiencer who understands the knowledge as himself would be very aware of himself and his use of knowledge, because ultimately, he as the 'pure awareness' creating, would be aware of himself as all this and be sharing from that central core of himself. Well even if your not there yet, you can practice. :)

I didn’t slip. Read what I really said. ;)

I will post on the segment tomorrow. It’s late. Till then I look forward to any posts on the topic.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I didn’t slip. Read what I really said. ;)

I will post on the segment tomorrow. It’s late. Till then I look forward to any posts on the topic.

Great, I cant wait for more ...

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sorry to hear about your experience.

You are correct I am not a Buddhist teacher.

As long as you learn something from bad experiences then there worth it

[jonesboy]

It is certain that self-originated primal awareness has been clear (and luminous) from the very beginning,

Like the heart of the sun, which is itself self-originated.

You should look at your own mind to see whether it is like that or not.

So first what is Primal or Primordial Awareness?

Here is a link for more details but I will post some snippets.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ght=primordial

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the base
is not defined only as being void, but is explained as having
three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial
wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

The essence is the void, the real condition of the individual
and of all phenomena. This base is the condition of all individuals,
whether they are aware of it or not, whether they
are enlightened or in transmigration. It is said to be "pure
from the beginning" (ka dag), because, like space, it is free of
all impediments, and is the basis of all the manifestations in
existence.

The manifestation of the primordial state in all its aspects,
its "clarity," on the other hand, is called the nature. It is said
to be "self-perfected" (lhun grub), because it exists spontaneously
from the beginning, like the sun which shines in
space. Clarity is the pure quality of all thought and of all
perceived phenomena, uncontaminated by mental judgment.

This is very important. Notice it is the pure quality of all thought. Silence is not the goal, not having thoughts is not the goal. This clarity without mental judgment with or without thoughts is what you are looking for.

The third of the three primordial wisdoms is energy. Its
characteristic is that it manifests without interruption.4 The
explanation of energy in Dzogchen is fundamental to understanding
the base. All dimensions, whether pure or impure,
material or subtle, are manifestations of one aspect or
another of energy.

Energy isn't just a concept is it part of the realization and part of the base of Primordial Awareness or the Primordial State. We will touch on this more in the next section.

So, summing up. Do you radiate like the sun with a shining clarity where all attachments are void/empty?

Any thoughts or comments?

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Do you radiate like the sun with a shining clarity where all attachments are void/empty?

Well I would point out I am currently in a aging physical body, so yea, also I don't want to be compared to the sun, it is just a ball of burning gas. Shining clarity where all attachments are void/empty....well that had a nice ring to it at first...but then I thought, well I like being attached to the idea of being a better more free person, more full of peace within and without, unconditional non-judgemental love. So I want to stay attached to those ideas. I think the world would sure be a better place if everyone was attached to being better more loving non-judgemental kind people.

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The essence is the void, the real condition of the individual

This link can really help you. You have totally misunderstood Buddhist concepts.


Emptiness: The Most Misunderstood Word in Buddhism

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lewis...b_2769189.html

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Well I would point out I am currently in a aging physical body, so yea, also I don't want to be compared to the sun, it is just a ball of burning gas. Shining clarity where all attachments are void/empty....well that had a nice ring to it at first...but then I thought, well I like being attached to the idea of being a better more free person, more full of peace within and without, unconditional non-judgemental love. So I want to stay attached to those ideas. I think the world would sure be a better place if everyone was attached to being better more loving non-judgemental kind people.

One thing I didn't touch on was the word Lumionous.

From the link above on The Primordial State we get this example of clarity.

For example, when we see a flower, we first perceive
its image without the mind entering into judgment, even if
this phase of perception only lasts for a fraction of a second.
Then, in a second phase, mental judgment enters into the
situation and one categorizes the perception, thinking,
"That's a flower, it's red, it has a specific scent, and so on."
Developing from this, attachment and aversion, acceptance
and rejection all arise, with the consequent creation of karma and transmigration. Clarity is the phase in which perception
is vivid and present, but the mind has not yet entered
into action.

We then learn that part of that non judgment, non aversion is loving kindness, compassion.

The Mahayana interprets the brightly shining citta as bodhicitta, the altruistic "spirit of awakening."[27] The Astasahasrika Perfection of Wisdom Sutra describes bodhicitta thus: "That citta is no citta since it is by nature brightly shining." This is in accord with Anguttara Nikaya I,10 which goes from a reference to brightly shining citta to saying that even the slightest development of loving-kindness is of great benefit. This implies that loving-kindness - and the related state of compassion - is inherent within the luminous mind as a basis for its further development.[28] The observation that the ground state of consciousness is of the nature of loving-kindness implies that empathy is innate to consciousness and exists prior to the emergence of all active mental processes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_mind

Clarity is where true loving kindness is, for there is nothing that judges from ones own issues, fears and aversions. It is pure.

[Rain95]

Emptiness or "the void" is not complete nothingness; it doesn’t mean that nothing exists at all. This would be a nihilistic view contrary to common sense. What it does mean is that things do not exist the way our thought based and conceptual self supposes they do

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Clarity is where true loving kindness is, for there is nothing that judges from ones own issues, fears and aversions. It is pure.

Clarity is not where it is, clarity is what it is. It is an aspect of a person who is clear, who lives with more awareness of self, and therefore more distance between them and their thoughts/beliefs/reactions.

[Samana]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the baseis not defined only as being void, but is explained as having three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

Instead of wasting time trying to understand Dzogchen by yourself when it can only be practised correctly with the guidance of a teacher, I suggest you investigate Chogyal Namkai Norbu's teachings and the International Dzogchen Community.

He is a well known Dzogchen teacher.

http://tsegyalgar.org/theteachings/dzogchen/

Good luck with your efforts.


_/|\_

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

For example, when we see a flower, we first perceive
its image without the mind entering into judgment, even if
this phase of perception only lasts for a fraction of a second.
Then, in a second phase, mental judgment enters into the
situation and one categorizes the perception, thinking,
"That's a flower, it's red, it has a specific scent, and so on."
Developing from this, attachment and aversion, acceptance
and rejection all arise, with the consequent creation of karma and transmigration. Clarity is the phase in which perception
is vivid and present, but the mind has not yet entered
into action.

So how would one have that clarity right now as we post on this message board? How would one live it, actualize it, right now?

So as you read posts, perceive without the mind entering into it. So what is here in these posts, if we don't let our minds enter into our perception? Absolutely nothing!

Carry this "without mind" awareness around with you all day, as you go to work, talk to friends, pay your bills, watch tv, eat some pizza, go to a movie....enjoy yourself and all around you without mind being involved in it.

You are not mind and have never been mind. It is something our brain makes that we get sucked into paying attention to, get sucked into identifying with. Without paying attention to it and identifying with it we are still 100% us.

We don't really change at all, we are just more at peace, less reactionary, nothing bugs us, we become aware of stuff we were missing, little details about ourselves and others and life. We experience ourselves and life around us differently, our experience changes, our perception changes, what we are focusing on changes, but we don't change at all, not even a little bit.