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  #11  
Old 16-08-2019, 08:48 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
I am inclined to believe that there is a good argument that we were not created by God but that God was created by us.
"God made man, man made religion and religion made God." Where did God come from though? It's been said that one day a hominid was out walking and running from the lions and tigers and bears oh my that were trying to munch on him. He started pondering about Mrs Cavedweller, the land, the food it had for him to hunt, the cave, fire.... All of those things were put there for his survival, who did it? Perhaps he was the Stoned Ape from the theory, apparently they didn't have the same restrictions on food and getting high on magic mushrooms might have been a regular part of their diet.

The wrath of God is a good control mechanism, thinking that someone is watching over us in time of need and having an immortal Soul are huge comforts.
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  #12  
Old 16-08-2019, 09:03 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Originally Posted by Busby
Maybe this thing we call 'evolution' is really something else...
Definitely something else, and sometimes I can't help but wonder if our evolution is really in retrograde. The bottom line is that we evolved from the apes, although there are gaps and missing links in the evolutionary tree. Whether that means the evidence simply hasn't been found or if tree has been pruned and grafted onto will remain a mystery. Perhaps man was made from clay as many cultures, including the Mayans, have in their creation myths. Or made by God/the Gods after all.

Physically we've evolved even though we still have throw-backs from our very ancient past, like vestigial tails for instance. Ingrained into us is what's incorrectly called the lizard brain, whose primary function is survival and psychologically we still have survival programmed into us - which is where "light good, dark bad" comes from. If we are a product of God and God is perfect, what am I doing with hairy nipples? And it's going to take you a while to get that one out of your head.
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  #13  
Old 16-08-2019, 01:51 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
I believe that every human being draws his conscious experience from an individual soul that can exist independently from the souls of other human and non-human beings. (I use the word “soul” to denote the energetic structure that generates my conscious experience.)

By contrast, many believe that we, as conscious beings, arise from a universal entity they call god, source, universal soul, or divine will. This belief is based on the idea that all our conscious experiences arise from one unitary source. It is based on the idea that not every human being has his or her own soul (soul=thing that creates consciousness) but that we all share one common soul. It implies that my conscious experience is generated by the same energetic system than your conscious experience.

Is there any proof or reason to believe that all conscious experience is, in fact, created by only one unitary soul (=energetic structure that creates conscious experience)? And why shouldn’t it be possible that there exist many sources (that generate conscious experiences) independently and parallel?
Consider that this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seimens
… every human being draws his conscious experience from an individual soul that can exist independently from the souls of other human and non-human beings. (I use the word “soul” to denote the energetic structure that generates my conscious experience.)

…is not mutually exclusive from this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seimens
By contrast, many believe that we, as conscious beings, arise from a universal entity they call god, source, universal soul, or divine will. This belief is based on the idea that all our conscious experiences arise from one unitary source.

They are both true.

It is in fact the individual soul (jivatman) which is the direct representative in the individuated human being, of the greater One Spirit (Atma)

Further, the soul is but one aspect of human consciousness which is an amalgam or microcosm of all consciousness ranging from the inconscient, to gnostic which the soul is, and as such has access to all of it.

The soul supports the evolution of the being, meaning the progressive transcendence of lesser, limited, or ignorant instrumental consciousness into that of the soul's gnosis, thus becoming what is fully conscious/gnostic, unitary, etc., within the evolutionary dynamic multiplicity of the physical.

We are not only the product of God, we are in actuality God, but in the status of becoming, in realizing THAT.

As to proof, is there any proof that proof is available or necessary to this process prior to the actual effectuation of it?

If you required 'proof' that you are hungry before sitting down to eat, you would starve.
Rather, the proof of hunger is in the fulfillment of its satisfaction.

Both the hunger and the satisfaction not only come from, but ARE the same as Source, and Doer.

~ J
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  #14  
Old 16-08-2019, 03:42 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Consider that this:



…is not mutually exclusive from this:



They are both true.

It is in fact the individual soul (jivatman) which is the direct representative in the individuated human being, of the greater One Spirit (Atma)

Further, the soul is but one aspect of human consciousness which is an amalgam or microcosm of all consciousness ranging from the inconscient, to gnostic which the soul is, and as such has access to all of it.

The soul supports the evolution of the being, meaning the progressive transcendence of lesser, limited, or ignorant instrumental consciousness into that of the soul's gnosis, thus becoming what is fully conscious/gnostic, unitary, etc., within the evolutionary dynamic multiplicity of the physical.

We are not only the product of God, we are in actuality God, but in the status of becoming, in realizing THAT.

As to proof, is there any proof that proof is available or necessary to this process prior to the actual effectuation of it?

If you required 'proof' that you are hungry before sitting down to eat, you would starve.
Rather, the proof of hunger is in the fulfillment of its satisfaction.

Both the hunger and the satisfaction not only come from, but ARE the same as Source, and Doer.

~ J

Jyotir...as usual, so beautifully and well said.

Peace & blessings
7L
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  #15  
Old 16-08-2019, 03:56 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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There isn't. However, there is much more evidence to support that all life originated from the stars themselves.
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  #16  
Old 16-08-2019, 05:29 PM
ThatMan ThatMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
There isn't. However, there is much more evidence to support that all life originated from the stars themselves.

The questions remains, who made all things? Nothing can't create something, right? There must be something otherwise there is no explanation.
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  #17  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:03 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatMan
The questions remains, who made all things? Nothing can't create something, right? There must be something otherwise there is no explanation.

But if God created everything, who created God? Basically the same thing...
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  #18  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:21 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
I believe that every human being draws his conscious experience from an individual soul that can exist independently from the souls of other human and non-human beings. (I use the word “soul” to denote the energetic structure that generates my conscious experience.)

By contrast, many believe that we, as conscious beings, arise from a universal entity they call god, source, universal soul, or divine will. This belief is based on the idea that all our conscious experiences arise from one unitary source. It is based on the idea that not every human being has his or her own soul (soul=thing that creates consciousness) but that we all share one common soul. It implies that my conscious experience is generated by the same energetic system than your conscious experience.

Is there any proof or reason to believe that all conscious experience is, in fact, created by only one unitary soul (=energetic structure that creates conscious experience)? And why shouldn’t it be possible that there exist many sources (that generate conscious experiences) independently and parallel?

Perhaps both are right?
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  #19  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:21 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatMan
Science says that we are made of exactly from the same stuff that the rest of the universe is made of, so, you, I, we are aware of our existence, right? It's not logic to assume that the rest of the universe is also aware of its own existence? After all, we all are made exactly from the same things, things that are the building blocks of our Sun, are also found in our own bodies, so we are all connected in a way.

I do believe in a Creator, you see, we are all caught in this ilussionary world, be the Creator is not, the Creator sustains everything, He is everywhere but not everything we see is a true expression of Himself.He is the absolute.

What is this stuff that we and the universe are made of?
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  #20  
Old 16-08-2019, 06:29 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatMan
The questions remains, who made all things? Nothing can't create something, right? There must be something otherwise there is no explanation.

The counter argument typically goes that something was not created from nothing but instead has always been. Of course I suppose the counter counter argument is "Yes, and that something is what we call God."
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