Contract to be non-believer

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Again it's down the personal beliefs but the two of you would have agreed to that, your mother as the abuser and you as the one being abused. If you want a reason for that agreement, here you are in a thread you yourself started and with everything that's running around in your head. And just right now I don't need the details because they'll get in the way for the time being but... What's next? Cause and effect. There's been a chain of cause and effect and I'd guess it started at least with your grandparents, and here you are now.

Yes, exactly like that happened, well I found out that started from my great grandfather on mom's side that abused my grandfather on mom side which abused his spouse (my grandma) and they both abused by mom, which abused me, and I decided to stop this chain.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The question right now is how are you going to respond? You've already said that you're going to follow your heart's desire, but you still have to deal with the relationship between you and your mother, how you feel about her and how your Spirituality is between the two of you.

I'll do the opposite of what my mom did to me, I will be caring and protective to my kids but also tell them what my ancestors did along time.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'd guess by what you've said that your mother's had some kind of disagreement with religion/Spirituality, something's triggered her bitterness so if you're still keen to talk to her about Spirituality I'd suggest talking to her about what happened.

Yep, I went visit her today after I left work, I talked with her, she said that there is no evidence that is ancient belief, she came up to this conclusion by herself since she in engineer.
Now my question is: Did she agreed to be non-believer before birth as part of the contract? I don't get how would that benefit her. Or was her pure own choice because of life frustration and has nothing to do with contract?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Right, that figures why your mom is against Spirituality, she might see that as a part of the problem as to why your grandparents were the way they were to her, and she's passing that 'down the line' because she doesn't know any better.

I talked to her, she said her grandparents were not forcing her to be religious, she said it was her choice to be non-believer. But I don't know if it was established by contract before birth or because she is frustrated with life and scientist and decided so by herself since there is no 'evidence'. According to her life cycle is like this :nothing>birth begin life>death and nothing again

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Here you are, in this thread. That's how it all plays out or unfolds for you and your choice. Again it's not about other people but yourself.

Yup is all about personal choice I agree

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It sounds very much as though your mother's bitterness is very deep-rooted and I'd guess there was a pretty serious incident that caused it - it certainly didn't come out of nowhere. And scientifically, what your mother cites as proof is old news as far as research goes. More recent scientific research tends to point to consciousness or something living on after physical death and other research seems to say that there is indeed an afterlife of some kind.

She is frustrated with life because she said she failed her career and marriage and was abused by parents because her father would always scold and beat her as he was frustrated with life as well.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I've moved this up one for a reason, because this is the mother of realisations. It's not about having beliefs or not, it's not about being Spiritual or not because there is a Spirituality beyond Spirituality and this is it - that despite the differences between you and your mother, after all the abuse and everything else you find Love for her in your heart, not hate. This is the reality, not the beliefs. Because of this realisation, what else have you found? The Love for one thing but compassion, hope that one day you and your mother might reconcile, forgiveness, understanding...?

Yes I want to reconcile I always say I forgive her, but she is always angry on me and frustrated. I give an example, today after work when I visit her she said on angry tone "Where are my glasses, what are you looking at, go search for them you dumb"

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Having beliefs means we don't know for certainty, although we might be certain of our beliefs the only thing we are really certain of is having them, not that they are true. The only way you're going to find out why your mother behaves this way is to ask her, but how we treat our children is largely learned from our parents treat us. I did say 'largely' because you can break the cycle when you have children of your own.

Yes I want to break the cycle and be the best version in my family. I love kids and don't want to harm, since I know how it is to be harmed.
My mom when asked why she is so sceptic about spirituality she said " there is no proof, i am engineer and scientists, these are ancient beliefs, wake up !" She said that when she was young she drown went unconscious and was close to death, luckily for her a man saw her drowning and rescued her. Her last memory was how she was drowning then nothing being unconscious blank period then at hospital woke up . So she thinks death is the same as blank period of nothingness

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Any reasons for it happening other than what your mother might give you are beliefs, so pick what resonates best with you. Your grandparents would have had their pre-birth contracts (if you want to use that term) to have their individual experiences so they could be the people they were when they met. As part of their contract your mother would have agreed to be a part of that as you would have made the contract to be here now. All the Lives are interconnected so the contracts would have been agreed by all parties with that connectivity in mind. It's not very Spirit jargon but it makes it clearer.

This makes a lot of sense thanks.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There is also a very human side to all of this too, in that your grandparents being religious and your mother's seeming 'reaction' to that has led her to be bitter and cynical, which leads you to starting this thread and everything that has happened before. That much you do know, but as to it happening because of beliefs in pre-birth agreements is up to you. The understanding of how the way your grandparents are, how they made your mother the way she is, how all of that has made you the way you are.... That's the Spirituality beyond the Spirituality of beliefs. I've been down this road before with people who have staunch beliefs, and because of their beliefs they just don't get it because they're too closed minded.

Yes I think she was frustrated since my grandparents believed in Abrahamic God but they didn't force my mother to follow this way and my mother was always a science nerd, and couldn't find any evidence about spirituality but her evidence is "i wasn't anything before being born and i don't remember how it was before, so i will be like that after i die, and all spiritual people have imaginations or invent stories". This along with her life frustration with failed career and marriage led to a bitter experience. I used to believe in creator and that we are souls and have afterlife until my mother came with logical arguments that there is no proof and can't exist these things because ancient beliefs. Mother made me sceptic as her, she pulled me on her track, and now I am confuse I don't know what to think, I can't be sure of anything. Can I be sure of spiritual after death? She definetely says no and influence me because she engineer and scientist

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I was physically abused by my step-father to the stage where my personality 'fractured' as a safety mechanism because I couldn't deal with it. As a result of that I'm a better person because of it and that has affected so many people and made their Lives better in often small ways, and that has lead to them making the Lives of those they touch a little better. I've forgiven him and moved on so here we are today.

Wow, I am sorry to read this, and I understand how it is to be physically under abuse. Forgiveness is indeed best.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If I had the choice I'd do it all over again just the way it was. I would have made a pre-birth agreement to forget I'd made the agreement and suffered the abuse anyway, just so I could make those changes in people's Lives. I believe that the Universe would have found a way to make the changes in their Lives even if I'd never existed, but the point is that I made them. It doesn't make me feel like God and I don't want a prize. In understanding the 'process' I have more prize than I could wish for, because that's something money can't buy.

You are wise, and courageous if you would repeat that, I personally wouldn't want to handle this again.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What would be a stronger Spirituality? Would it be having beliefs that are at odds with what's going on, or would it be Loving your mother despite beliefs and being able to turn your hurts into halos? Because if you still Love your mother after all that, a halo is what you deserve.

Second option, I love mother no matter what, she gave birth to me. If she was bad and abusive will she remain Earth bound or on Low vibration?
But for sure there is afterlife spiritual yes? Please don't say yes to make me feel better. Thanks

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes, exactly like that happened, well I found out that started from my great grandfather on mom's side that abused my grandfather on mom side which abused his spouse (my grandma) and they both abused by mom, which abused me, and I decided to stop this chain.

That's pretty much human nature really and I've come across similar stories - including my own. My step-father was also abused by his father. The patterns children learn early on in their Lives are the ones that they'll repeat when they're adults, and on it goes.

Originally Posted by Claude

I'll do the opposite of what my mom did to me, I will be caring and protective to my kids but also tell them what my ancestors did along time.

I know you will. What I will say though is be a little bit careful of your intentions because further down the line they will make a difference. Don't do it to spite your mother or to try and heal what you have inside, that'll end badly. If you do it because you want to be a loving parent to your children and you want them to feel Loved, that's a whole different story.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yep, I went visit her today after I left work, I talked with her, she said that there is no evidence that is ancient belief, she came up to this conclusion by herself since she in engineer.
Now my question is: Did she agreed to be non-believer before birth as part of the contract? I don't get how would that benefit her. Or was her pure own choice because of life frustration and has nothing to do with contract?

Both. If your mother has made the contract to be this way then whatever made her frustrated has led her to fulfilling the contract. I'm just trying to keep it very simple to avoid confusion for now. The contract is more of a goal if you like, what you want the end result to be.

Originally Posted by Claude

I talked to her, she said her grandparents were not forcing her to be religious, she said it was her choice to be non-believer. But I don't know if it was established by contract before birth or because she is frustrated with life and scientist and decided so by herself since there is no 'evidence'. According to her life cycle is like this :nothing>birth begin life>death and nothing again

The goal isn't about being a believer or not, the goal is our experiences, lessons etc. Being a believer or not are contexts in which people have their experiences, not a goal in itself. How does having beliefs benefit Spirit, considering Spirit is whatever it is you may think? If you knew everything as Spirit does, would it be even possible for you to have beliefs?

This thread is not about beliefs or not, it's about your understanding what's going on and so far, beliefs have been pretty much in the background. Haven't you noticed that? We've touched a few times on Life's Purpose which is the belief that applies but the rest of it..... If you think your existence is about beliefs then you need to go back to basics, with respect of course.

Your mother has her perspective within which she will have her beliefs regardless if you think they're right or wrong, and from that perspective she will have her own individual experience of the Universe. As will you. So while your mother is telling you in no uncertain terms that there is no afterlife, are you telling her in no uncertain terms that there is? Are you as bad as each other, fighting a battle and no quarter being given? Your mother is having her experience without beliefs, you are having your experience with beliefs. So who's right or wrong? Is she right and you're wrong? Beliefs mean no proof and with your mother being a scientist that's how scientists think.

Are you right, are your beliefs right? What makes you more right than your mother or are you the one that doesn't understand what's going on?

Gandhi said "If you want to understand a man, walk a mile in their shoes." Have you done that or have you defended your position to the best of your ability?

Originally Posted by Claude

Yup is all about personal choice I agree

So is it your personal choice to not try and understand your mother and her perspective? What's more important to you, having beliefs or understanding?

Originally Posted by Claude

She is frustrated with life because she said she failed her career and marriage and was abused by parents because her father would always scold and beat her as he was frustrated with life as well.

All of that will weigh heavily on her shoulders, and even though she is a scientist her self-esteem will be fairly low. I'm really not surprised about where she's coming from being honest, I've been there myself and it's not a nice place to be, quite frankly.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes I want to reconcile I always say I forgive her, but she is always angry on me and frustrated. I give an example, today after work when I visit her she said on angry tone "Where are my glasses, what are you looking at, go search for them you dumb"

yeah I know it's so damned difficult, I was much the same with my mother for many years. It wasn't about beliefs though but it's the same underlying issues - you always hurt the one you Love. In many cases it's a cry for help, your mother wants you to feel the way she does because she's looking for empathy and understanding, something that she seems to have been lacking since early childhood by what you say. She's trying to tell you what she feels by making you feel it.

Being honest, on the priority list beliefs as so far down the line they're out of sight.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes I want to break the cycle and be the best version in my family. I love kids and don't want to harm, since I know how it is to be harmed.
My mom when asked why she is so sceptic about spirituality she said " there is no proof, i am engineer and scientists, these are ancient beliefs, wake up !" She said that when she was young she drown went unconscious and was close to death, luckily for her a man saw her drowning and rescued her. Her last memory was how she was drowning then nothing being unconscious blank period then at hospital woke up . So she thinks death is the same as blank period of nothingness

I know you want to break the cycle, otherwise you woudn't have started this thread.

She was simply unconscious, not dead.

Originally Posted by Claude

This makes a lot of sense thanks.

You're very welcome.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes I think she was frustrated since my grandparents believed in Abrahamic God but they didn't force my mother to follow this way and my mother was always a science nerd, and couldn't find any evidence about spirituality but her evidence is "i wasn't anything before being born and i don't remember how it was before, so i will be like that after i die, and all spiritual people have imaginations or invent stories". This along with her life frustration with failed career and marriage led to a bitter experience. I used to believe in creator and that we are souls and have afterlife until my mother came with logical arguments that there is no proof and can't exist these things because ancient beliefs. Mother made me sceptic as her, she pulled me on her track, and now I am confuse I don't know what to think, I can't be sure of anything. Can I be sure of spiritual after death? She definetely says no and influence me because she engineer and scientist

Somewhere along the line something happened to your mother to make her anti-Spirituality. If she wasn't that bothered about Abrahamic religions she wouldn't have such an adverse reaction, she'd more than likely not have much of a reaction at all.

I'm a medium and have done rostrum work, which is standing up in front of a crowd and giving people messages. I would make what's know as a Spirit link/connection so that I could communicate with Spirit directly then receive messages direct from Spirit. The way I was taught during development classes was that we needed to give proof of survival, that the person we were talking to should be given proof that their Loved Ones had survived physical death and it was actually them. If go into the mediumship thread the chances are they'll tell you something similar, that the Spirit they link/connect with will give the person they're talking to some kind of confirmation.

The other thing you can do is read up on Past Life experiences and make your own mind up from there. What it does tell you is how much influence your mother has had on your beliefs. Perhaps it's time to go find out for yourself and make your own mind up for a change.

Originally Posted by Claude

Wow, I am sorry to read this, and I understand how it is to be physically under abuse. Forgiveness is indeed best.

Thank you but it's all in the past and I gained from it instead of allowing it to get the better of me.

Originally Posted by Claude

You are wise, and courageous if you would repeat that, I personally wouldn't want to handle this again.

Thank you. From your perspective, I can understand that but I have the benefit of hindsight, whereas you're still very much in the middle of it all.

Originally Posted by Claude

Second option, I love mother no matter what, she gave birth to me. If she was bad and abusive will she remain Earth bound or on Low vibration?
But for sure there is afterlife spiritual yes? Please don't say yes to make me feel better. Thanks

Do yourself a favour and forget this 'low vibration' nonsense because it doesn't really help any, it doesn't come from Spiritual people it comes from victims. The other thing is that often people can't see past the abuse or their own sensibilities, and while they rattle on about "being here to learn the lessons" they don't learn the lessons.

If there was a contract between you and your mother? You see, having the belief that there was a contract with your mother is one thing, but when it comes to how that contract plays out that belief is pushed to one side for the belief that it shouldn't have been that way. Often one belief contradicts another.

As I said earlier about being a medium, yes there is an afterlife. What is is though is anybody's guess because nobody really knows for sure.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

That's pretty much human nature really and I've come across similar stories - including my own. My step-father was also abused by his father. The patterns children learn early on in their Lives are the ones that they'll repeat when they're adults, and on it goes.

Seems is transmitted over generations, but how many generations can do contracts while in spirit world?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I know you will. What I will say though is be a little bit careful of your intentions because further down the line they will make a difference. Don't do it to spite your mother or to try and heal what you have inside, that'll end badly. If you do it because you want to be a loving parent to your children and you want them to feel Loved, that's a whole different story.

I was hurt and don't want to make other suffer as well, I understand how it is to be hurt, so I want to protect and not transmit this to children

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Both. If your mother has made the contract to be this way then whatever made her frustrated has led her to fulfilling the contract. I'm just trying to keep it very simple to avoid confusion for now. The contract is more of a goal if you like, what you want the end result to be.

She showed me this video starring another engineer Bill Nye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwDvejyrA0

I see contract as end goal yes but her own choice can kick in as well, so I get confused when is own choice and when contract. She might have other contract but because frustrated with life her own choice might made her become non-spiritual and non-believer. She said she is non-believer and doesen't care about spirituality because she is scientist having to deal with science that contradicts spirituality and there is no proof of this but just ancient stories perpetuated over time. She said when we die is game over for consciousness and person is nothingness, just bacteria party.

She says "Laws of Physics don't permit for afterlife to take place including quantum field theory and that consciousness is created in brain, there are no spirits but just stories, and that there is no evidence of spirit but just ancient stories perpetuated to control masses of people and reduce fear of death. Nobody came back from death and say that something was there and there is no accepted proof for that including reincarnation and medium talking"

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The goal isn't about being a believer or not, the goal is our experiences, lessons etc. Being a believer or not are contexts in which people have their experiences, not a goal in itself. How does having beliefs benefit Spirit, considering Spirit is whatever it is you may think? If you knew everything as Spirit does, would it be even possible for you to have beliefs?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

This thread is not about beliefs or not, it's about your understanding what's going on and so far, beliefs have been pretty much in the background. Haven't you noticed that? We've touched a few times on Life's Purpose which is the belief that applies but the rest of it..... If you think your existence is about beliefs then you need to go back to basics, with respect of course.

You are right I think I went away from the thread title. I wanted to know if she was programmed to be like this or if her own choice because she scientist made her think like that. I think her own choice being scientist and having to deal with logic and science made her like that because contradicts spirituality, science needs proof, she says spiritual is dogma belief without proof and just story. She said that there is no proof for spirituality like afterlife and reincarnation, imagination stories or inventions for money.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Your mother has her perspective within which she will have her beliefs regardless if you think they're right or wrong, and from that perspective she will have her own individual experience of the Universe. As will you. So while your mother is telling you in no uncertain terms that there is no afterlife, are you telling her in no uncertain terms that there is? Are you as bad as each other, fighting a battle and no quarter being given? Your mother is having her experience without beliefs, you are having your experience with beliefs. So who's right or wrong? Is she right and you're wrong? Beliefs mean no proof and with your mother being a scientist that's how scientists think.

She said that when she drown she was near death and that she went into nothingness and that it will be like that after death, that is her proof that consciousness is in brain.

Yes she is scientist and wants proof for everything, her logic can't accept spirituality and also because her frustration she seems very angry about this.

She says spirituality stuff is as real and credible as magic from circus and spiritual people as convincing as magicians

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Are you right, are your beliefs right? What makes you more right than your mother or are you the one that doesn't understand what's going on?

Gandhi said "If you want to understand a man, walk a mile in their shoes." Have you done that or have you defended your position to the best of your ability?

Nope I don't know if my beliefs are right, nor do I know her's are right. I tried walking in her shoes indeed and sucks, I always cheer her up and try be good child.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So is it your personal choice to not try and understand your mother and her perspective? What's more important to you, having beliefs or understanding?

I tried understanding her, I understand and I had belief of creator and spirit until mother came with logic counter argument that there is no proof and are stories and that science always comes with proof

Originally Posted by Greenslade

All of that will weigh heavily on her shoulders, and even though she is a scientist her self-esteem will be fairly low. I'm really not surprised about where she's coming from being honest, I've been there myself and it's not a nice place to be, quite frankly.

I see what you mean thanks.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Yeah I know it's so damned difficult, I was much the same with my mother for many years. It wasn't about beliefs though but it's the same underlying issues - you always hurt the one you Love. In many cases it's a cry for help, your mother wants you to feel the way she does because she's looking for empathy and understanding, something that she seems to have been lacking since early childhood by what you say. She's trying to tell you what she feels by making you feel it.

Yes I was in her shoes but I would never harm family no matter how frustrated I am, I understand her and cheer her up always, but she nervous.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Being honest, on the priority list beliefs as so far down the line they're out of sight.

For me in my case knowing that death is not just game over and party for bacteria is my priority, beliefs might vary but I hope there is for sure something after death. Don't know if she will be punished for abusing if she did by own choice, or by being non believer by own choice.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I know you want to break the cycle, otherwise you woudn't have started this thread.

Correct

Originally Posted by Greenslade

She was simply unconscious, not dead.

She said she was almost dead and this is proof for her that consciousness is in the brain and once we die it's game over turning into unconscious nothingness

Originally Posted by Greenslade

You're very welcome.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Somewhere along the line something happened to your mother to make her anti-Spirituality. If she wasn't that bothered about Abrahamic religions she wouldn't have such an adverse reaction, she'd more than likely not have much of a reaction at all.

She said science opened up her mind and made her use logic and needing proof and realized that spiritual like afterlife are imaginary stories without being backed by proof. She also said that more and more people become anti-spiritual as we live in 2019, everything is technology and spirituality ancient belief without proof, science on other hand has proof and is advancing. Also she said that the number of spiritual people and believers is decreasing since we have advanced technology, science and more and more waking up from this ancient beliefs without proof

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'm a medium and have done rostrum work, which is standing up in front of a crowd and giving people messages. I would make what's know as a Spirit link/connection so that I could communicate with Spirit directly then receive messages direct from Spirit. The way I was taught during development classes was that we needed to give proof of survival, that the person we were talking to should be given proof that their Loved Ones had survived physical death and it was actually them. If go into the mediumship thread the chances are they'll tell you something similar, that the Spirit they link/connect with will give the person they're talking to some kind of confirmation.

So you verified with alive people what deceased said and was exactly the same? With respect how you know that it wasn't imagination or that you were not influenced?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The other thing you can do is read up on Past Life experiences and make your own mind up from there. What it does tell you is how much influence your mother has had on your beliefs. Perhaps it's time to go find out for yourself and make your own mind up for a change.

Do you know over how many generations the contracts are being made?
I looked up even a boy claiming he was his grandfather from war world 2 but as mother said, they are not proof or accepted as proof as they might be invented for money or for fame.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Thank you but it's all in the past and I gained from it instead of allowing it to get the better of me.

Forgiving is best, good that is in past.

What will happens when people that did bad on their own choice will face death?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Thank you. From your perspective, I can understand that but I have the benefit of hindsight, whereas you're still very much in the middle of it all.

Yes, I have to be convinced because mother changed my mind by saying "look science always has proof and spirituality doesen't, they are just imaginary ancient stories to control masses, become popular and earn money"

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Do yourself a favour and forget this 'low vibration' nonsense because it doesn't really help any, it doesn't come from Spiritual people it comes from victims. The other thing is that often people can't see past the abuse or their own sensibilities, and while they rattle on about "being here to learn the lessons" they don't learn the lessons.

So low vibrational planes are myths? There is just one spirit plane?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If there was a contract between you and your mother? You see, having the belief that there was a contract with your mother is one thing, but when it comes to how that contract plays out that belief is pushed to one side for the belief that it shouldn't have been that way. Often one belief contradicts another.

Yes is sort of contradiction, I think her contract was different goal but because her frustration and own choice she ended up like this. Embracing just science and always proof need being very logical and saying always "fairy stories, come on ancient beliefs, to control masses, they are not accepted as proof, science has better explanation and is game over after death"

Originally Posted by Greenslade

As I said earlier about being a medium, yes there is an afterlife. What is is though is anybody's guess because nobody really knows for sure.

I tend to believe mother and she changed my mind on spirituality because she always has this proof for everything as she is scientist. I am disarmed in front of her because no evidence, so I have to believe her...and don't want argue with her

My mother also says is an afterlife but in terms of growing plants from dead corpse and feeding bacteria, but for dead person is game over like before born. Are you reffering to spiritual afterlife?

Originally Posted by Claude

Seems is transmitted over generations, but how many generations can do contracts while in spirit world?

Going back to the dawn of history, possibly.

Originally Posted by Claude

I was hurt and don't want to make other suffer as well, I understand how it is to be hurt, so I want to protect and not transmit this to children

I understand this because I felt the same way, but your intentions are important.

Originally Posted by Claude

She showed me this video starring another engineer Bill Nye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwDvejyrA0

I see contract as end goal yes but her own choice can kick in as well, so I get confused when is own choice and when contract. She might have other contract but because frustrated with life her own choice might made her become non-spiritual and non-believer. She said she is non-believer and doesen't care about spirituality because she is scientist having to deal with science that contradicts spirituality and there is no proof of this but just ancient stories perpetuated over time. She said when we die is game over for consciousness and person is nothingness, just bacteria party.

She says "Laws of Physics don't permit for afterlife to take place including quantum field theory and that consciousness is created in brain, there are no spirits but just stories, and that there is no evidence of spirit but just ancient stories perpetuated to control masses of people and reduce fear of death. Nobody came back from death and say that something was there and there is no accepted proof for that including reincarnation and medium talking"

There are scientists who think that they have scientific proof of an afterlife and that we exist beyond death. And if we don't then myself and probably thousands of mediums are delusional.

Often beliefs come down to agenda, we have reasons for believing what we do.

Your mother doesn't have anything close to any real information. Naseem Haramein, who is one of the world's leading scientists says that Spirituality is the science we don't understand yet. If someone like him can be Spiritual - and so many more - then what does that say?

Talking of agenda, what is it that you're tying to do here? If you keep what your mother has been saying in your heart you'll drive yourself crazy and you'll end up bitter in your own way. You need to forget everything your mother has given as 'proof' and go Walk your own Path. Go to YouTube and search for God and science or Spirituality and science, listen to what world-class scientists are saying.

Originally Posted by Claude

You are right I think I went away from the thread title. I wanted to know if she was programmed to be like this or if her own choice because she scientist made her think like that. I think her own choice being scientist and having to deal with logic and science made her like that because contradicts spirituality, science needs proof, she says spiritual is dogma belief without proof and just story. She said that there is no proof for spirituality like afterlife and reincarnation, imagination stories or inventions for money.

I think you just weren't sure of what you were asking. If you Google Life Purpose or Karmic Obligations and read up about it, that'll give you the idea.

Originally Posted by Claude

She said that when she drown she was near death and that she went into nothingness and that it will be like that after death, that is her proof that consciousness is in brain.

Yes she is scientist and wants proof for everything, her logic can't accept spirituality and also because her frustration she seems very angry about this.

She says spirituality stuff is as real and credible as magic from circus and spiritual people as convincing as magicians

You mother has a few deep-rooted issues it seems that lead her to think this way and you won't really understand her until you find those issues. This is not about believers and non-believers, this is about understanding how people can come to this. Her logic can't accept Spirituality because of something called Cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is what's also known as the 'lock on, lock out principle. Your mother has 'locked on' to science and 'locked out' Spirituality for her own reasons, most likely because of a trauma of some kind.

Once you understand the reasons for your mother being this way everything will become clear. At the moment all you're doing is butting heads with her because your focus is on beliefs. The beliefs themselves really don't matter, what will tell you so much more is what reasons there are for having those beliefs.

Originally Posted by Claude

Nope I don't know if my beliefs are right, nor do I know her's are right. I tried walking in her shoes indeed and sucks, I always cheer her up and try be good child.

Again it's not about beliefs, it's about coming to an understanding with your mother and you can't do that when you focus on the wrong thing. If you focus on beliefs then you'll never resolve this. If you focus on finding a solution and put beliefs to one side you have a chance. Isn't there enough war because of beliefs?

Originally Posted by Claude

I tried understanding her, I understand and I had belief of creator and spirit until mother came with logic counter argument that there is no proof and are stories and that science always comes with proof

Logic is relative to one's own agenda and your mother's logic is aimed at proving her right. But did you try and understand your mother and put belief to one side?

Originally Posted by Claude

I see what you mean thanks.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes I was in her shoes but I would never harm family no matter how frustrated I am, I understand her and cheer her up always, but she nervous.

Did you feel as she felt?

Originally Posted by Claude

For me in my case knowing that death is not just game over and party for bacteria is my priority, beliefs might vary but I hope there is for sure something after death. Don't know if she will be punished for abusing if she did by own choice, or by being non believer by own choice.

Again this is something you need to spend time researching so you can make your own mind up about.

Originally Posted by Claude

She said she was almost dead and this is proof for her that consciousness is in the brain and once we die it's game over turning into unconscious nothingness

Then go hit YouTube and search, there are some really brilliant videos on consciousness. One of the reasons you're losing in this argument with your mother is that you don't have very much ammunition other than you believe, and to her as a scientist that's pretty lame. Go get yourself some ammo and level the playing field - or stop playing a game you're badly equipped to deal with.

Almost dead is still alive, not dead.

Originally Posted by Claude

She said science opened up her mind and made her use logic and needing proof and realized that spiritual like afterlife are imaginary stories without being backed by proof. She also said that more and more people become anti-spiritual as we live in 2019, everything is technology and spirituality ancient belief without proof, science on other hand has proof and is advancing. Also she said that the number of spiritual people and believers is decreasing since we have advanced technology, science and more and more waking up from this ancient beliefs without proof

In Spirituality you can believe anything you want to, which I'd guess is one of the attractions for some. And your mother is quite right, Spirituality has become very diluted lately and more people are focussing on technology rather than Spirituality.

Originally Posted by Claude

So you verified with alive people what deceased said and was exactly the same? With respect how you know that it wasn't imagination or that you were not influenced?

If I'd only just met you ten minutes ago and told you things that I couldn't have possibly known? If I gave you information that you had never given me?

Originally Posted by Claude

Do you know over how many generations the contracts are being made?
I looked up even a boy claiming he was his grandfather from war world 2 but as mother said, they are not proof or accepted as proof as they might be invented for money or for fame.

I don't think anybody knows for sure.

Originally Posted by Claude

Forgiving is best, good that is in past.

What will happens when people that did bad on their own choice will face death?

That depends on the person. Most seem to regret although there are those that don't.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes, I have to be convinced because mother changed my mind by saying "look science always has proof and spirituality doesen't, they are just imaginary ancient stories to control masses, become popular and earn money"

Go do your own research but do it because you want to know, not because you want to prove your mother wrong.

Originally Posted by Claude

So low vibrational planes are myths? There is just one spirit plane?

There are many different vibrational planes, it's the 'low vibration' that I was picking up on. Thinking there's low vibration is low vibration in itself.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes is sort of contradiction, I think her contract was different goal but because her frustration and own choice she ended up like this. Embracing just science and always proof need being very logical and saying always "fairy stories, come on ancient beliefs, to control masses, they are not accepted as proof, science has better explanation and is game over after death"

We get there either because of or despite ourselves and with respect you don't know what the contract is. You can think and make judgements all you like but that doesn't make it part of the contract. How do you know that your mother's frustrations weren't part of the contract?

Originally Posted by Claude

I tend to believe mother and she changed my mind on spirituality because she always has this proof for everything as she is scientist. I am disarmed in front of her because no evidence, so I have to believe her...and don't want argue with her

My mother also says is an afterlife but in terms of growing plants from dead corpse and feeding bacteria, but for dead person is game over like before born. Are you reffering to spiritual afterlife?

Go find your own proof. Get yourself out of this thread and see what else is out there. Walk the Path because if you don't you'll be stuck with nothing to counter your mother. If nothing changes then nothing changes. Why are you arguing if you don't have anything to argue with? Stop arguing because it's only making things worse, really you're only making her worse too because of you don't have enough information you can't come up with a convincing argument. Every time you ague with your mother you're only feeding the flames.

I communicated with the Spirits of those that had passed over and gave proof of survival, I proved to the person that their Loved ones had lived on.

[Claude]

Greenslade

Thanks for answer. I Will look in the suggested material and get some ammo for myself, I won't charge into war against mom, just for myself. Thanks for everything Sir !

I was reffering to the contracts in family for example did the great grandparents that harrassed my grandparent that harrassed my mom which harrassed me and I decided to stop harassing my children. Were we all in the spirit realm together along with Descendants(yet to come) that Will come to this world when we did this soul life contracts? Over how many generations in family are the contracts made, do you know?


I don't think that you along with other thousands of mediums are delusional I mean come on you had verified accepted proof that the dead still exist and that they are spirit in spiritual afterlife realm

How did spirit connect with You from spirit realm from the light place? What mecanism, do you open portals? Can they connect just by their thoughts? I don't know how they come from spirit light realm here to speak with mediums

Originally Posted by Claude

Greenslade

Thanks for answer. I Will look in the suggested material and get some ammo for myself, I won't charge into war against mom, just for myself. Thanks for everything Sir !

I was reffering to the contracts in family for example did the great grandparents that harrassed my grandparent that harrassed my mom which harrassed me and I decided to stop harassing my children. Were we all in the spirit realm together along with Descendants(yet to come) that Will come to this world when we did this soul life contracts? Over how many generations in family are the contracts made, do you know?

I don't think that you along with other thousands of mediums are delusional I mean come on you had verified accepted proof that the dead still exist and that they are spirit in spiritual afterlife realm

How did spirit connect with You from spirit realm from the light place? What mecanism, do you open portals? Can they connect just by their thoughts? I don't know how they come from spirit light realm here to speak with mediums

You're most welcome Claude, but don't thank me yet because in a few days when you have your head full you might end up cursing me. But it'll be worth it.

How far back does family go? Sometimes energy patterns appear in families as though they came out of nowhere and members of the Soul group will, at that time, agree to start those patterns. Like the abuse. That sets off a chain reaction that goes down the generations and following generations agree to keep that going. In time and by Group agreement there comes a time when they need to clear those energies to be replaced by something different. So a few generations later (there are no numbers really, it's down to the group to decide) something happens to change that pattern for a new one. That's where you come in. The pattern has been abuse, you're changing it - or you will when you have your kids.

In another long story there's a planetary shift happening right now, where many Souls are clearing old energy patterns from the planet. The old patterns are reappearing so they can be 'flushed out' for a different, higher consciousness. Yes, you are a part of it because you're doing your bit. Your little bit, my little bit, a lot of little bits....Your mother would have (I'm guessing) chosen to be bitter to bring it to the surface so you could flush it out for your lineage. Because there's a lot of it happening right now, your Group would have agreed to sync with other groups so that it creates a critcal mass of energy.

I bet you didn't expect that when you climbed out of bed this morning.

I was just trying to counteract what your mother had been saying. So considering there was proof that the information I had been given was accurate, how did that happen? How can I possibly have known details that were only known the the person I was talking to? Maybe you should ask your mother that one and see how she replies.

I don't do any portals or stuff like that, it doesn't work that way. For me personally, I have an 'always on' connection so it's always happening. What changes is the focus and then that changes my consciousness. When I'm going through the day I'm a regular Joe but if I'm doing a reading my head will change modes and the medium part comes to the fore. I can feel a change in how my head feels, and I feel like a very different person - much more 'solid'. It's a creepy but cool experience. Sometimes it's initiated by Spirit, as though they're calling me if you like. When that happens I feel my energies completely change and I don't feel myself any more.

It's not so much thought as a transfer of consciousness. If I gave you my post code you could look that up on Google maps and take a virtual walk down my street - you would become conscious of it. That's the different between thoughts and consciousness.

[Claude]

Greenslade

Thanks a lot for your message. I am building up information and leave alone beliefs, I am trying to filter myself out what is right.

I don't intend to start an argument with my mom as she will retaliate against me and we will end up nowhere but just angry at each other. At the moment I think is best for me to forgive and don't discuss this with her.

By the way, do you think that she can be a starseed Extraterrestrial spirit having a human incarnation?

Originally Posted by Claude

Greenslade

Thanks a lot for your message. I am building up information and leave alone beliefs, I am trying to filter myself out what is right.

I don't intend to start an argument with my mom as she will retaliate against me and we will end up nowhere but just angry at each other. At the moment I think is best for me to forgive and don't discuss this with her.

By the way, do you think that she can be a starseed Extraterrestrial spirit having a human incarnation?

Good for you, Claude.

You're very welcome. A long time ago a wise man once said to me, "Take what resonates with you as your own Truth, leave the rest behind because it is not yours." When you find what resonates with you it'll all become clear.

I didn't mean you to start an argument but for you to simply ask the question then stand back from it, focus not on the words your mother is using but what's behind the words. In the beginning it doesn't matter if what you find there is right or wrong, what is important is that you look behind the mask - the mask being her words. In time, you will know because that will resonate with you too.

We are all Starseeds, we all came from somewhere other than this planet, in the grand scheme of the Universe this planet is young. Matter is emergent of consciousness as quantum theory will tell you so the material Universe was created by consciousness.

[lemex]

I wouldn't think of contracts in such specific terms. Under such an idea don't forget there are many other contracts, everything is a contract. Does such a state make sense or is there only one contract of (from) many different angles. Just way too many contracts and as I have noticed all contracts always seem to be negative based. Contracts also imply no choice for the signer but choice remains for everyone else (non signers). But contracts also imply innocence as there is no choice for the soul's signing as in all the other contracts. Do we limit the conversation to non believers imo, what about other beliefs and believers which to is a form non believing. Contracts imply form and purpose where signer has information others do not. I have also noticed as we may not understand our individual contract we do not understand other contracts.