Spirituality and money worries

[BeaconLight]

Hi everyone!

I really hope to get some insight into this because I really don't have people in my life to talk to about this who will get the struggle I have with integrating my spiritual beliefs with practical reality.

I am in a lot of debt from poor choices I made with finances during years where I was confused and depressed. I want to start on the road to financial stability. I read in spiritual teaching about trusting in abundance, but I have not yet been able to understand how to do that while still balancing being responsible.

I moved back with my mom from having lived with my sister and have been able to save just enough to be able to cover most of the moving expenses of moving out into my own place. But still, my debt follows me. I have been going through a really hard time lately internally and am feeling called to go away for a few days and be closer to open skies and earth (I live in NYC). I found a place in WA which calls to my soul and I know I will feel replenished there, but the cost of being there and getting there is so much. A part of me wants to be smart and find a way to cope where I am in my life now and keep trying to be smart about my money-as being frivolous is what got me into this mess. But that is a constant worry about money which I feel I am supposed to be moving away from. But there is a reality that if I dip that much into what i have saved for my own place, if I get the call to view a place and I can't afford to move, that will destroy me. I don't want to put a trip on my credit cards-it's either I use my moving savings or I don't go.

I am just so confused. My spirit is calling that I need to get away and be away in solitude but my head is telling me I can't afford it and I am terrified of making the wrong choice. I fear that saying "go where your heart calls and trust in abundance" is wrong and that I will go, come back to be called and be unable to move out.

Is there any insight anyone can give me about how to have faith in abundance while still being practical and realistic about the reality of my financial situation? I feel so lost.

Going somewhere closer isn't really a viable solution to me because everywhere around here is pretty much just as expensive as going across the country. I've checked. It would really only be a couple of hundred dollars difference and places close to me are booked the week I would have off to go anyway.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

[Baile]

Hi BeaconLight. I was massively in debt 10 years ago: credit cards, mortgage plus renting a second home, and a large bank loan. It was without doubt the most trying time of my life; I did not sleep well for a several years there. So I think I know how you feel.

Today I am completely debt free. And I will never go into debt again. I paid off the cards via a collection company that took 40 cents on the dollar. But I had to pay them in one lump sum, and that took some selling of assets and financial and lifestyle organization work. (No eating in restaurants for a while, for example.) Now when I pay with a credit card (Air Miles points!), I only do so if I already have the money in the bank and can immediately pay off the card.

What I'm saying to you is sometimes the practical and common sense answer is what's needed, much more so than spiritual answers. But then I also have a different perspective than most when it comes to "abundance" beliefs. Most think of abundance as manifesting what they want and need. Whereas I start from the place of already having what I need; already being in a place of perfect abundance. Even being okay with being in debt: accepting it and relaxing into it while setting out to fix it and do something about it.

Need creates worry and fear, which creates dis-alignment. It closes you down inside, and shuts you off from the magic of life. Whereas needing nothing creates peace and contentedness, which (ironically and magically) then creates the space for something to come in; for something positive to manifest.

One important aspect in this process is trust. You have to know and trust that as long as you're consciously working at resolving things, then things will eventually change for the better. Trusting is hard to do when you're worried. But again there it is: if you worry, you shut yourself off from the magic that happens when you're open to life and what it brings.

I always like to bring up Goethe's quote about providence: "The moment one definitely commits oneself [trust and practical action], then Providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no one could have dreamed would have come their way."

Originally Posted by Baile

Whereas I start from the place of already having what I need; already being in a place of perfect abundance. Even being okay with being in debt: accepting it and relaxing into it while setting out to fix it and do something about it.

Need creates worry and fear, which creates dis-alignment. It closes you down inside, and shuts you off from the magic of life. Whereas needing nothing creates peace and contentedness, which (ironically and magically) then creates the space for something to come in; for something positive to manifest.

One important aspect in this process is trust. You have to know and trust that as long as you're consciously working at resolving things, then things will eventually change for the better. Trusting is hard to do when you're worried. But again there it is: if you worry, you shut yourself off from the magic that happens when you're open to life and what it brings.

Was going to throw my two cents in on the post but there is no need everything i would have said and some has been said already.

[baro-san]

I think that you received bad advice in the above replies. Wishful thinking can't help you.

Learn to limit your needs to whatever you're sure you can satisfy! You should limit your spending (including debt servicing) to whatever your paycheck covers. If you find your paycheck too small, find ways to increase it (acquire better skills to get a better paying job) before dreaming about spending more.

You seem to already be too old to be in this mess.

Affirmations work only on your subconscious, they aren't a lottery ticket. You shouldn't concentrate on what you want, but on how to better your act, because only that will bring you more.

On average people get what they deserve. Don't bet on you being the happy exception!

If you look around objectively, probably life already offered, still offers, and will definitely offer you opportunities. Don't ignore them, hoping for a miracle!

Good luck!

Learn from this story:

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religious man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."

[BeaconLight]

Originally Posted by Baile

What I'm saying to you is sometimes the practical and common sense answer is what's needed, much more so than spiritual answers. But then I also have a different perspective than most when it comes to "abundance" beliefs. Most think of abundance as manifesting what they want and need. Whereas I start from the place of already having what I need; already being in a place of perfect abundance. Even being okay with being in debt: accepting it and relaxing into it while setting out to fix it and do something about it.[/i]

Thank you so much for your reply. I actually have held the view you have of settling into my debt because I have what I need and chipping away at it slowly. I just feel that in the interim, I am not living or nourishing my soul. I don't go anywhere, I don't do anything. I would be okay with that ordinarily, but I just think of the fact that it will take me years (even a decade or more) to pay off my debts alone and having come from a place of being sheltered all of my life, I thought this was the time I was supposed to be living more with my spiritual growth and understanding-coming away from being alone and going places, experiencing the world and its people more and now to realize I have to pretty much be where I have been all of my life, I just feel like I am wasting more time from all the poor decisions I have made. I don't stop and will not stop working to clear my debt, but the thought that I have to stay in this isolated state because I can't afford to really be out and about just makes me discouraged that I am continuing to stunt my spiritual growth by feeling bound to practical responsibilities. I don't know if I am making much sense. But, thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post. It means very much to me.

[BeaconLight]

Originally Posted by baro-san

I think that you received bad advice in the above replies. Wishful thinking can't help you.

Learn to limit your needs to whatever you're sure you can satisfy! You should limit your spending (including debt servicing) to whatever your paycheck covers. If you find your paycheck too small, find ways to increase it (acquire better skills to get a better paying job) before dreaming about spending more.

You seem to already be too old to be in this mess.

Affirmations work only on your subconscious, they aren't a lottery ticket. You shouldn't concentrate on what you want, but on how to better your act, because only that will bring you more.

On average people get what they deserve. Don't bet on you being the happy exception!

If you look around objectively, probably life already offered, still offers, and will definitely offer you opportunities. Don't ignore them, hoping for a miracle!

Good luck!

I thank you for your reply. However, I do not feel entitled to anything so I am unsure if that is what you were implying, but it does not apply to me. I had a second job several months ago (that was seasonal with an option to stay on if they felt I was a fit). The extra money was good, but I was exhausted, was not able to write (as writing is what brings me peace and what I know is part of my life path here-to help others with my words) and I was not an ideal fit because I worked too slow for them but was working at a pace consistent with me. It was strenuous work. So, they decided to not keep me on.

My original question was about balancing the need to be true to my heart's calling and still taking care of my practical responsibilities. Going and getting extra marketable skills in areas I have zero interest in is what helped to get me into this place. I got a Master's Degree thinking that was the way to go and I am not working in my field because even though realizing half-way through I was not interested in it, i did what others suggested and what I thought was right, in just finishing it and at least it would be something extra on my resume and may take me places I did not see at the time. That was wrong. And now these student loans are most of my debt.

When I started to have my spiritual revelations, I knew that writing is what nourishes my soul. Yes, I work a mundane job, but the thought of going and acquiring more mundane skills to make myself more marketable in fields I have no interest in just to pay pills and get older and die is just miserable for me. I found a spark of my calling and I want to follow that but am unsure how to follow that while still being responsible with my practical responsibilities which all arose before I was at this place. I feel like I am carrying yesterday's burdens with the epiphanies I have now of what I am meant to be doing and going further into fields and areas not meant for me just does not seem like a viable option because inside, I know that is not my purpose here. I know it will take some time, but I feel like I am letting down my higher self and my purpose here by taking now another decade or more to clear this mess up before starting to really realize myself and my purpose.

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by BeaconLight

I thank you for your reply. However, I do not feel entitled to anything so I am unsure if that is what you were implying, but it does not apply to me. I had a second job several months ago (that was seasonal with an option to stay on if they felt I was a fit). The extra money was good, but I was exhausted, was not able to write (as writing is what brings me peace and what I know is part of my life path here-to help others with my words) and I was not an ideal fit because I worked too slow for them but was working at a pace consistent with me. It was strenuous work. So, they decided to not keep me on.

My original question was about balancing the need to be true to my heart's calling and still taking care of my practical responsibilities. Going and getting extra marketable skills in areas I have zero interest in is what helped to get me into this place. I got a Master's Degree thinking that was the way to go and I am not working in my field because even though realizing half-way through I was not interested in it, i did what others suggested and what I thought was right, in just finishing it and at least it would be something extra on my resume and may take me places I did not see at the time. That was wrong. And now these student loans are most of my debt.

When I started to have my spiritual revelations, I knew that writing is what nourishes my soul. Yes, I work a mundane job, but the thought of going and acquiring more mundane skills to make myself more marketable in fields I have no interest in just to pay pills and get older and die is just miserable for me. I found a spark of my calling and I want to follow that but am unsure how to follow that while still being responsible with my practical responsibilities which all arose before I was at this place. I feel like I am carrying yesterday's burdens with the epiphanies I have now of what I am meant to be doing and going further into fields and areas not meant for me just does not seem like a viable option because inside, I know that is not my purpose here. I know it will take some time, but I feel like I am letting down my higher self and my purpose here by taking now another decade or more to clear this mess up before starting to really realize myself and my purpose.

Try to make a realistic long term plan (10 years), that will satisfy your obligations and as much as possible your needs and wishes. Write is down on paper, with financial and time milestones! You can adjust it later, but at least you know where you're going. See if relocation now is a feasible thing.

I think that having a diploma is a good thing. I don't know your domain, but excepting a few fields where there are very few opportunities, you should be able to make a better living, pay your debts, while on the side starting doing what you feel to be your calling, until you're free of debt.

Good luck!

[jro5139]

I say if your soul is calling you somewhere... GO! Don't worry about the money, money comes and money goes... experiences are what's important. Once I move to a city that I had only been to once, for 2 days, and I met some of my best friends there, that are still my best friends to this day. Another time, I moved to a city that I had only been to for 3 days in high school. I met my children's father there, so there must have been a reason. I moved there with only $500 in my pocket, no job and no place to lived. I packed up what fit in my car, and left the rest. I just wanted to live there.
What I'm saying to you is, money is not the important thing. Doubt is not the important thing.
I spent years worrying about money and bills, stressing every month and then I realized that most of the things that I worried about, never happened. And if they do, you deal with them. I don't worry about money now, because I realized that the universe always takes carry of my needs. I just took a real survey of my life, and realized that. All that worrying was unnecessary.

Originally Posted by BeaconLight

Hi everyone!

I really hope to get some insight into this because I really don't have people in my life to talk to about this who will get the struggle I have with integrating my spiritual beliefs with practical reality.

I am in a lot of debt from poor choices I made with finances during years where I was confused and depressed. I want to start on the road to financial stability. I read in spiritual teaching about trusting in abundance, but I have not yet been able to understand how to do that while still balancing being responsible.

Is there any insight anyone can give me about how to have faith in abundance while still being practical and realistic about the reality of my financial situation? I feel so lost.

Honestly? Don't worry so much about abundance. That'll appear as you clear up your debt. To me this isn't a spiritual thing. It's totally practical. All the spiritual mumbo-jumbo in the world won't bring you abundance unless it's focused on turning you into a go-getter - because nothing comes for nothing in the material world.

It means getting down to the practicalities of sorting your finances out - while affirming "I will!"

You have savings so it sounds like you've already changed (or at least recognise you have to change) a few spending habits. So what's needed is you truly believing in yourself that you can sort this out. You're a good part of the way there already. Affirming that you will be back-in-the-black will put you in the right frame of mind and change your behaviour in subtle ways.

About affirmation. You can buy books on the subject; you can go to the affirmations section of this forum where you'll read of people who tabulate great lists of things they think they should do but really it's simple and just needs discipline (which you're having to exercise anyway to get your books straight).

In fact it's a little easier on the results side because your situation is ongoing.
One of the big dangers with affirmations is: doing them then going around searching for results and, not finding them, give up. Instead, people should just note a result when it appears - don't go looking for it. In your situation, every little step toward repaying debt is progress and a result. Every time you pay more back into something than you take out, you're moving toward freedom.

So you need to tell yourself - out loud at first, that "I will be free of debt!" No complicating add-on clauses. No time-scales. Just that. Tell it to yourself a hundred times a day! if you have to and particularly if you pass by a mirror. Of course you can say it under your breath if you have to, or even just in your mind. And SMILE when you have paid back even a small amount. KNOW that you're getting there.

Originally Posted by BeaconLight

I moved back with my mom from having lived with my sister and have been able to save just enough to be able to cover most of the moving expenses of moving out into my own place. But still, my debt follows me. I have been going through a really hard time lately internally and am feeling called to go away for a few days and be closer to open skies and earth (I live in NYC). I found a place in WA which calls to my soul and I know I will feel replenished there, but the cost of being there and getting there is so much. A part of me wants to be smart and find a way to cope where I am in my life now and keep trying to be smart about my money-as being frivolous is what got me into this mess. But that is a constant worry about money which I feel I am supposed to be moving away from. But there is a reality that if I dip that much into what i have saved for my own place, if I get the call to view a place and I can't afford to move, that will destroy me. I don't want to put a trip on my credit cards-it's either I use my moving savings or I don't go.

I am just so confused. My spirit is calling that I need to get away and be away in solitude but my head is telling me I can't afford it and I am terrified of making the wrong choice. I fear that saying "go where your heart calls and trust in abundance" is wrong and that I will go, come back to be called and be unable to move out.

It probably is at this very moment. If you're worrying about this "trust in abundance" (and I don't blame you - it is a bit iffy, like soldiers saying "trust in the Lord" as they face a hail of bullets in battle!) you won't really trust and possibly lose trust in your own efforts if it doesn't appear to be working. (Although it must be said that a small abundance is upon you if you're able to save. But that could be more about trust in your own strength.) So, if you are worried then don't...not just now. It may seem a pain but stick with whatever you feel is financially more stable right now. Your time will come - remember you are making amends for your reckless past!

Going somewhere closer isn't really a viable solution to me because everywhere around here is pretty much just as expensive as going across the country. I've checked. It would really only be a couple of hundred dollars difference and places close to me are booked the week I would have off to go anyway.

If I can give my honest feelings - I can't tell obviously how you balance your determination to be free of debt with the need for a (spiritual) retreat. If on retreat you are still likely to worry about debt and the cost of the retreat has depleted what little you have, then it hardly seems worth it. It might be better to look for other things to do on your week off this year / period - get more of that debt paid, get more saved so the worries lift somewhat then make a getaway later on. If you feel you can hold worries in abeyance - like, your resolve is strong enough to take up where you left off on your return so you can forget them for the week............or simply stop caring about the debt - it could be the break you need.

The choice is yours.

Here's wishing you well


♥

[HereAndNow]

Dear BeaconLight

I think Baile gave such a beautiful answer and advice above.

From myself I'd just add: try to relax.

Just little bit, ever day ... to relax as much as possible.
You can take this as your spiritual practice ... can you relax little bit every day in your current situation.
And you will see that slowly everything will start becoming lighter.
Of course you will still have your debts to sort out, and job and income etc etc.
But it will become easier, and you will start noticing and finding new opportunities,
new and better ways of dealing with everything.
And the more you manage to relax the more the universe will help.

At least that's what happened to me when I was so desperate and lost that I just decided to
give up all the struggle, to sit down and start meditating.
I'm not suggesting doing exactly the same ... and I didn't have any debts or any big commitments at that time.
But just trying to relax little bit every day ... and taking this as your practice.
Taking little bit time every day to notice that you are alive and this is already absolutely magical. Time to just breathe and relax.

These things are not easy ... not meant to be easy. But that's OK.
I'm wishing you lots of courage!

PS. And isn't it possible to be closer to open skies and earth with a tent?
Just a question .. but personally there was a point in my life when I realised that
one can do so many wonderful things with very little money ... with just using little bit of creativity ... and being little bit unconventional.
There are people out there who live enjoyable lives for years while having almost no money.