The Truth About So-called Astral Projection

Originally Posted by Katyashy

Sorry, but that is not true.

I hope you're clear on what lucid dreaming and astral projection are, as you seem to not grasp the very definite differences.

In lucid dreaming you are in fact asleep, realize you're dreaming, and take control of that dream.

In astral projection, you are not asleep. You mindfully and with intent project your consciousness to another location. You do not just happen to become aware of your dream state. You have control from the beginning.

And yes, I am fully aware that various parts of the brain can become more active at one time or another. However, the point of activity does not define what you're thinking at that time. That's like saying that because you achieve alpha brain waves you must be thinking of baseball.

Oh, btw when lucid dreaming I do NOT feel awake. I am completely aware than I'm both asleep and that I'm dreaming. That is in fact one of the definitions of lucid dreaming.

My friend, in a lucid dream, you feel both awake and are aware that you are sleeping in bed - if you weren't aware of this then it wouldn't be a lucid dream. There is also a sense of movement and of being somewhere else in a lucid dream.

As I said before, your so-called astral projection is a WILD. There is no reason to believe that it is otherwise. I could also show you EEG scans on different brain states but it wouldn't mean anything to you as you are set on your cosy beliefs.

[Xanth]

Nevermind....

[Blue Tiger]

Not worth the effort of discussing this further, so enjoy your "truth" and I will continue to explore and learn.

Have a lovely life!

[Lynn]

Hello

This is a reminder that while we do not all "SEE" things the same that does not mean that maybe from the ideas of another we can not maybe learn something. We are all on our paths and we all have our "Feelings" on what is right for us and what is not. Bottom line honestly comes down to RESPECT.

I have not had to learn to Astral Project but I do and have taught workshops on this "THEORY" and honestly that is all it is as there is as of yet nothing concrete to prove it real or not real. We have a long ways to go in understanding and mapping the human brain. For now we have ideas and we have truths that fit us to explore. We do not have a map saying X marks the stot.

Remember that one's man's truth is another man's fact.


Lynn

Lynn, I very much appreciate your contributions to this thread and feel you are right on. Astral projection did not come natural to me, I had to learn it - but when I did, I found in many ways it was far more incredible than I had ever thought possible - but after a while I too also began to feel it wasn't quite everything that it appeared to be on the surface. Honestly, I'm not going to interject over anyone elses opinions about it because it is such a subjective experience - but largely by asking WHY it is so subjective, and how all the strange and inexplicable things are centered around it, I have come up with what I feel are some pretty good theories.

I have a theory about all of this - and this seems the place to share it.

I knew on looking at the OP that it would cause a lot of reaction and though I don't agree with all of his conclusions, at the same time I think he has a lot of good info.

Now - hear me out, please!

This will probably drag for a while but I hope if you will stay with me you might find it interesting. For those who have no interest in such theories I have marked with a smaller and colored font my technical explanation so you can just skip to the diverging part.

Awareness, IMO, is simply that facility through which we are aware. I know that doesn't explain much, but it makes sense to me. We can focus down awareness to it's bare essential, experiencing 'pure awareness' as essentially an all-encompassing sensation.

Consciousness, IMO, is all the 'things' we have in awareness. Mind, IMO, is the mental mechanism through which all the 'things' in consciousness are related to each other - how we 'relate' one concept to another, so that all the 'things' (concepts) so interlinked form a coherent picture.

Another word for 'mind' might be 'interpretive engine' - a mechanism where all the disparate concepts are constantly related to each other in such a way that we build a cohesive worldview. So, when through successful deep meditation we experience 'pure awareness' what we are really doing is suppressing mind and emptying consciousness, so that the fundamental feeling of 'awareness' is the only remaining 'thing' in consciousness.

Some people feel that this represents some sort of fundamental 'reality' - but really this is simply exercising control over our cognitive processes to the point to experience fundamental awareness. This is a very useful exercise for learning mental discipline and understanding our cognitive processes, but there is no other cognition involved. Understanding only comes through cognition.

Once we have sufficient control of our cognitive processes, then we are ready to open to 'spiritual' consciousness, which is a direct intimate experience of vital animating principles or energies. This is sharply differentiated from Material consciousness, which is purely the perspective of forms and dualities.

Under this theory, lucid dreaming and astral projection are very similar in that they use the same 'interpretive engine' cognitive model. Metaphor is the raw language of mind, which is integral to building a coherent worldview in communicating from one level of consciousness to another. They do operate very similarly, whether perceived as a 'dreaming', 'lucid dreaming', or 'astral' experience.

All of this I think Summerlander could agree with were it in his own wording and terminology, but here is where he and I take a different view. I am going to differentiate at this point between 'internally informed' and 'externally informed' awareness.

Psychic phenomena, which is widely prevalent and I have personally experienced, utilizes this same cognitive model described above, but the difference is that the source of information experienced in consciousness comes from outside one's personal mental space. It is conveyed through the unitive psychic field from elsewhere - or elsewhen!

What are we actually experiencing when we are 'astrally traveling'? Is it all just a peculiarly intense dream, or actually some kind of waking dream which communicates metaphorically our consciousness perceiving events from some other locale or time? I don't know - but I am quite convinced there is far more to it than appears on the surface. I have read about and experienced far too many otherwise inexplicable things to simply dismiss it.

[Lynn]

Hello

First off thank you Humm for the kindness....that said we are all on the same path to learn.

I hope that now we are on that path.

I just thought I would add some thoughts and that is all they are something I came to read.

Thoughts from Harper’s Encyclopedia of Mystical and Paranormal Experience
- A phenomenon in which a person feels separated from his or her body and seems to be able to travel and perceive distant locations on Earth and outwardly realms
- Descriptions of OBE’s are nearly universal and date to antiquity and contain many similarities
- Scientific “evidence” is inconclusive
- One quarter of the Western population believe they have had an Out of Body experience
- In ancient Egypt it was described as ‘ka’ a vehicle of the mind and soul ‘ba’
- Plato held that the Soul could leave the body and travel
- Socrates, Pliny and Plotinus gave descriptions of experiences that resembled OBE’s
- Plotinus wrote of being ‘lifted out of the body into myself’ on many occasions
- The Tibetan Book of the Dead describes a ‘Bardo-Body’, an ethereal duplicate of the physical body, in which the deceased find themselves.
- Chinese claimed they could achieve the OBE during meditations
- Shamans in tribal cultures say they can project themselves out of body at will by achieving an ecstatic state of consciousness
- The common theme is that a second subtle body becomes the vehicle for travel
- In Astral Travel reports are about moving about the Earth plane like apparitions passing through walls and solid objects
- They travel with the speed of thought
- Travel to the Non Earthly realms called the Astral Plane are much different with contact with objects much different, with contact with objects and beings who ‘feel’ solid and real
- The onset of OBE’s occur during waking consciousness, before, during and after sleep, during severe illness or great stress, trauma or fear
Theories to explain fall into two camps
1) That something does leave the body
2) That nothing leaves the body
Those who feel something leaves the body ascribe to one of three general explanations
1) Physcial double travels in the physical world
2) A non physical double travels the physical world
3) A nonphysical double travel in a mental Astral world
Those who think nothing leaves the body have two main theories
1) Parapsychological, in which the OBE is imagination plus psi
2) Psychological , in which the OBE is hallucinatory experience, the manifestation of self to self, the ego’s denial of inevitable death of the physical body

Now I am not saying its right or wrong or how I feel about it....just another perspective on things. Gives us more to think on as its all "Theory" for now.


Lynn

Excellent summation Lynn.

Yes, so right - I don't know if anyone truly understands it, I know I don't - but there is DEFINITELY something to it.

I know how the material mind suspects anecdotal evidence - but a MOUNTAIN of anecdotal evidence is plenty of empirical evidence that something BIG is going on.

I truly believe AP will be the final frontier!

Thank you for your input Lynn and Humm.

I usually just send the method to my students and coach them but they are, of course, welcome to their interpretations of what they experience in the phase.

I am very much open to what Humm proposed. I have often thought that sometimes we experience the mental spaces of others or even access a 'holy' consciousness because we are part of it.

I'd be a hypocrite to completely deny such possibility because I too have had phase experiences that seemed to have facilitated telepathic links...

Like lucidly travelling to other people's dreams and imagination. Seeing their thought forms... even seeing inaccurate replicas of their houses which strangely enough can reflect how the visited parties would like their abodes to be!

Not only that... there is a possibility of us perceiving the 'gist' of what the visited parties are doing in the physical world. Not that we really separate from the physical body and travel in the physical realm in some incorporeal form to their houses. If travelling to other people's minds is real and not coincidence, then when we see what they are doing in the physical (the gist), we are actually seeing what they are conscious or unconscious of doing.

If the visited party is washing the dishes in reality then they are aware of this in their minds. The content in their minds is what we are able to perceive in the phase.

For example...

In the phase, we might see that they have already done tons of work (their wishful thinking). The walls of the kitchen are peacefully blue, they are happy, the water from the taps flows gracefully, there are a myriad bubbles in the air. The gist of what's occurring in the physical world has been perceived.

We ring them in reality after returning to our bodies. They tell us, to our surprise that they were washing the dishes but that they have a long way to go and they are tired. The kitchen walls are yellow but they mention to us that they are THINKING about painting them blue because it makes them feel better. They also mention that they wish they could enjoy the chore.

Something along these lines has happened to me when I visited people. I know some of you have. Have you guys heard of Michael Persinger? He seems to think that telepathy is possible and can often occur in dreams.

What do you guys think?

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Summerlander

Thank you for your input Lynn and Humm.

I usually just send the method to my students and coach them but they are, of course, welcome to their interpretations of what they experience in the phase.

Yes always the 'intention' is well set to let the individual experience we are there as the teachers ( or advisors) to guide them and ine how I do it help to make sure they are safe. I am there to watch over them and to make sure that as I do it via a meditation method I am aware if they are in any distress. Meditations are not for eveyone as I well know I can NOT do one alone I go too deep. We then share openly what we felt and how it was. We are there as a group to support and understand all views. ( or that is the intenion) .

I am very much open to what Humm proposed. I have often thought that sometimes we experience the mental spaces of others or even access a 'holy' consciousness because we are part of it.

I feel that we are all "one' that all things even things we perceive to be no living have an energy to them so there is life there. We can connect to it all as it is all a part of us. That "Holy" consciousness is a part of our being, I feel that we are all connected but we so learn that as we have a single body we are individuals. We are all Light Beings now for some that be the Light of God or Creation. I am not sure where I honstly stand on that....but I embrace we are all "Light".

I'd be a hypocrite to completely deny such possibility because I too have had phase experiences that seemed to have facilitated telepathic links...

I respect this...."seemed to have" I like that statement. As a working Medium I know that I percive to have contact with the dead that I talk to dead people, I have NO way to concretly prove in this....but to me I feel its a telepathic and physical link at times I make. We too all have this in us I feel. We are all the same make up of DNA but just that we do not all open to being that part, or maybe that is not a part our Soul needs in this life to experience.

Like lucidly travelling to other people's dreams and imagination. Seeing their thought forms... even seeing inaccurate replicas of their houses which strangely enough can reflect how the visited parties would like their abodes to be!

Interesting idea maybe YES we pick up on the vibrations of how other's want things to be that could be much from how we think maybe it should be. Remote Viewing is how I see this aspect. While I can consciouslly do this, I too find that I go places in dreams and get information that proves upon research to be true. ITs too been a well studied avenue in WWII the govt. studied it as a "tool" to use to gain information on enemy activities and plans. Like all things we can do I so feel we are GUIDED by a higher divine power that works for the greater good of all and not just one. How many times have the paths been changed so that WE are all still here ?


Not only that... there is a possibility of us perceiving the 'gist' of what the visited parties are doing in the physical world. Not that we really separate from the physical body and travel in the physical realm in some incorporeal form to their houses. If travelling to other people's minds is real and not coincidence, then when we see what they are doing in the physical (the gist), we are actually seeing what they are conscious or unconscious of doing.

The question always is are we "Travelling" or simply sensing the thoughts they have? It was only when I was able to be "Phsysically SEEN" by someone I know well and done with complete trust that We knew I travelled. NEVER having shared an image with the other they were able to describe how I looked. As I was able to do with them. Funny story from one is that is SO felt it was not "Real" that he said OK come to my room and tell me about it....I did then he goes OK guesses maybe....so wanted MORE proof said what am I wearing. Well not much as it turned out green briefs, again he said OK guess maybe still NOT proof til I went to him might want to get some new one's as there is a rather large HOLE in the right butt area. HE bolted to the closet for a robe. Was OMG that is so real. YET lol as human do still wanted to test me more and did with a t shirt. Asked what was on it. I said a rainbow but not in traditional form its center going outwards. Showed me a picture of the T Shirt was a Tie Die Rainbow.

Real or not connections to thier thought or really "Seeing it" hard to say. Why in studies on this aspect is hit and miss and random.

If the visited party is washing the dishes in reality then they are aware of this in their minds. The content in their minds is what we are able to perceive in the phase.

For example...

In the phase, we might see that they have already done tons of work (their wishful thinking). The walls of the kitchen are peacefully blue, they are happy, the water from the taps flows gracefully, there are a myriad bubbles in the air. The gist of what's occurring in the physical world has been perceived.

We ring them in reality after returning to our bodies. They tell us, to our surprise that they were washing the dishes but that they have a long way to go and they are tired. The kitchen walls are yellow but they mention to us that they are THINKING about painting them blue because it makes them feel better. They also mention that they wish they could enjoy the chore.

Something along these lines has happened to me when I visited people. I know some of you have. Have you guys heard of Michael Persinger? He seems to think that telepathy is possible and can often occur in dreams.

What do you guys think?

I so feel that we come to the body in physical form and at times to one that has huge sufferings as there is alwys something of pleasure to that experience. We think of the 5 senses ( well to me there be 6 ) we have and the wonders of even the feeling of the fingers on the computer key. There is a senation to it all. To have the eyes to see the words or hear them if we lack in sight. Its a wonder we be is it not.

I feel that dreams are on levels some are the brain at rest and play but other's are messages and shared memories or thoughts. I have friends that I just have to think about them and they call me or come on line, we need not more than the thought. We are on different time zones but we connect at times with a simply hug when needed. Again DONE with trust and respects in place. Many a night I be woke by their emotions ext.

I feel we are only beginning to tap the surface of all that man is....as we are finally at that place maybe of being open to receive....and not fight.

We are creatures are we not. This thread proves we are different but on some levels alike.

Lynn

[LPC]

Originally Posted by Summerlander

I could also show you EEG scans on different brain states but it wouldn't mean anything to you as you are set on your cosy beliefs.

Summerlander, I think that you misnamed this thread. It should not be called "The truth about so-called astral projection" but "My opinion about the astral not having any reality outside my own mind".