Questions about Nosso Lar. (Chico Xavier)

Hi,

So I have seen the film Nosso Lar now, (astral city), based on the books by Chico Xavier, I watched it for the second time last night.

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of going back to that place, and hanging around, earning merit by working etc, to eventually be reborn again in this place.

Anyway, in our astral home, we still have ego and pride, we still have our dark side. One question I have is, is it only on earth that we can work at overcoming these things? Do we get reborn here to work on these issues? And when we are there, is there no way of working through these things, other than to choose to be reborn? Also, can we learn to (consciously) astral project there, or can we only learn to do that here on Earth?

In the film, Andre's mother visits him, she dwells in the 'higher spheres'. The others in the astral city seem to be stuck there, not able to enter these higher spheres. When we astral project, we can learn to enter these higher spheres can't we? Well, by learning to astral project, is that a way to avoid being stuck in that place? We are training our soul (psyche) to be able to consciously journey through worlds. When we die, surely we retain that ability.

My grandparents were great grandparents, but I feel no connection to them. I don't see any sense in them still being family after death, as harsh as that sounds. The way they thought, and the way I think, well it's a million miles apart. We're all family, not just our family. Why keep such an attachment to family when we are all family? I love my parents very much, but I see no sense in keeping such strong ties after death, I want everyone to be my family, not just my physical family.

I found myself very resistant to the part where they explain that they 'program' the perfect life to be reborn in. I feel like, well it just isn't true. I believe in rebirth, but to hang around in a place just like here, where we still have to work and suck up to ministers etc, still have the same parents and grandparents, to then program a new life for ourselves back here on earth. I'm not happy with any of that. If it is the case, I want to move on from all of it. My sights are set on the higher spheres.

Hi peacegarden. I've read a lot on the available past life/inter life research.

How I see it is that there is immense scope & complexity in these areas. We have free will & choices. Incarnation I feel is a way of fast track learning & development. We probably learn far far more from the suffering & hardships than we ever could from what we perceive as the 'good stuff'.

I'd think that we gravitate on the other side to whatever levels & areas are resonant with our actual soul development. I'd see it that there is a vast realm/domain on the other side. I don't see it all as hierarchical, but rather multi dimensional & multiple levels. I do see it that souls have different ages & experience, that is not necessarily reflected in Earth circumstances or appearances.

Different challenges & life lessons lead to soul development & growth, & we may be working on the same lessons for many many lifetimes.

What has made a lot of sense to me personally on the realities of the spirit world has specifically been the writings of Michael Newton, Ian Lawton & Andy Tomlinson. I've read a lot on spirituality; & for me no other information comes close to that provided by those authors. But we're all different - & resonate with different things & have different paths.

I skim watched the Astral City - & will maybe watch properly some time. I'd think that the spirit realms are far more real than this one. Leaving aside the transitional & lower astral realms - I would say that the spirit worlds are places of great love & peace. Our natural home is one of great bliss & contentment. Being in that state at our current levels of soul development I would think doesn't lead to fast growth, but lessons take far longer to learn there. The spirit world is for rest & healing & to assimilate the lessons learned while in incarnation. We incarnate for greater growth, learning, experience & development.

At some stage I feel that we graduate from the incarnational path & move on to higher spiritual levels & lessons. I feel that the incarnational path could be considered akin to the life cycle of a baby in human terms - it is simply the beginning of things. That said; I feel that we have thousands of incarnations; likely on many different Worlds & realms.

& in context, wherever we're at - where we are at in the important thing. To focus on this incarnation & what is in front of us. No doubt many questions about the spirit world will be answered when we return there. For now we're in the incarnational/physical World.

To fast track soul development - then I'd say one of the ways of doing so is to be of genuine altruistic service to others.

Interesting. Thanks spiritualized. I must say that it wasn't portrayed as a place of bliss and contentment in the film, at least I didn't take it as such. That was one thing that I felt didn't make sense.

I suppose it makes sense that to suffer is to grow quickly. So long as we're having a tough time here, then we're learning. The thing about genuine altruistic service, is that it has to be genuine, does it not? I'm trying volunteer work, but I'm not feeling it. I'm feeling like I should be doing it, rather than wanting to give. Things go round in my mind like 'what's the point in doing this' and that kind of thing. I want to get to that place where it is genuine help and not for my own (spiritual) betterment.

I agree, I strongly feel that things are somewhat more complex than the film makes out, that there is more to it all than that.

Originally Posted by peacegarden

Interesting. Thanks spiritualized. I must say that it wasn't portrayed as a place of bliss and contentment in the film, at least I didn't take it as such. That was one thing that I felt didn't make sense.

So much has to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's some interpretation of a film maker. How can something that is non-physical/spiritual be portrayed in a film anyway?

I suppose it makes sense that to suffer is to grow quickly. So long as we're having a tough time here, then we're learning. The thing about genuine altruistic service, is that it has to be genuine, does it not? I'm trying volunteer work, but I'm not feeling it. I'm feeling like I should be doing it, rather than wanting to give. Things go round in my mind like 'what's the point in doing this' and that kind of thing. I want to get to that place where it is genuine help and not for my own (spiritual) betterment.

It's been said by some that this entire current existence/World is all STS based (service to self). It's a complex question as to whether in this current level there is any genuine STO? (service to others).

At least your being honest & examining your own thoughts, feelings, responses & reactions - that your looking more deeply at your own motivations, inner World & actual feelings around it all.

Maybe we are 'here' primarily for ourselves? For our own growth, learning & development? There is also the ideas that we teach others through our own circumstances & lives. Like the starving child or homeless man teaching compassion. Genuine service is maybe not necessarily just about going & doing 'good' things for people. How much also is it about making others feel good; in whatever capacity that is done in? Listening deeply to a stranger on the bus, smiling at someone on the street, stroking a cat? It's maybe not the things that we think of as being 'big' that really matter as much.

I agree, I strongly feel that things are somewhat more complex than the film makes out, that there is more to it all than that.

Of course.

Before you know what kindness really is
you must lose things,
feel the future dissolve in a moment
like salt in a weakened broth.
What you held in your hand,
what you counted and carefully saved,
all this must go so you know
how desolate the landscape can be
between the regions of kindness.
How you ride and ride
thinking the bus will never stop,
the passengers eating maize and chicken
will stare out the window forever.

Before you learn the tender gravity of kindness,
you must travel where the Indian in a white poncho
lies dead by the side of the road.
You must see how this could be you,how he too was someone
who journeyed through the night with plans
and the simple breath that kept him alive.

Before you know kindness as the deepest thing inside,
you must know sorrow as the other deepest thing.
You must wake up with sorrow.
You must speak to it till your voice
catches the thread of all sorrows
and you see the size of the cloth.

Then it is only kindness that makes sense anymore,
only kindness that ties your shoes
and sends you out into the day to mail letters and purchase bread,
only kindness that raises its head
from the crowd of the world to say
it is I you have been looking for,
and then goes with you everywhere
like a shadow or a friend.

–Naomi Shihab Nye

__________________________________________________ _____________

We have to alter the structure of our society, its injustice, its appalling morality, the divisions it has created between man and man, the wars, the utter lack of affection and love that is destroying the world. If your meditation is only a personal matter, a thing which you personally enjoy, then it is not meditation. Meditation implies a complete radical change of the mind and the heart. This is only possible when there is this extraordinary sense of inward silence, and that alone brings about the religious mind. That mind knows what is sacred.

– Jiddu Krishnamurti, from Beyond Violence

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[Tobi]

I get the sense that in the Inner Worlds we tend to gravitate towards the things we have most in common with, and which are most like our "inner tuning" -or "note". These things may or may not be something we are at the moment consciously aware of. That depends on how aware we are. It will be our Soul's default level.
This is going to be different for all of us. Our level of inner development will be the "place" we temporarily inhabit when we pass over.
Temporarily -because spiritual growth can if we desire it to -continue when we are there. Opportunities for further awareness will present themselves. How awake we are to receive those opportunities and advance with them, will depend on the deep desire of our Soul to reach greater Light. (for want of a better word)

People, or other Souls we gravitate towards there will be those with whom we have something in common, or those whom we hold love for in one way or another. If we have no love, bond or connection with a person who is/was a member of our family, then we may or may not come into contact with them, or maybe at some point we might begin to feel some connection, maybe through a realization that All is One, or through other means of realization that we had something to share with that person. (?)

As for learning in this world (physical plane)....I can't tell you a lot because I don't know yet what it's all about -but I do know when we live on Earth we come into contact with many things -some which are similar to us, some which are vastly different. We "rub shoulders" with so many diverse influences it creates a kind of friction, and friction stimulates growth.

I watched Nosso Lar too. And yes -I wouldn't necessarily want to live there in that way. Although it was quite pleasant, It didn't seem like my kind of place! LOL....a bit like a town-suburb kind of scenario. Those who have a lot of ties to a life like that might find themselves living like that....who knows?
But the Astral and higher planes are so vast. There are so many realms, zones, ways of being....

Originally Posted by Tobi

Those who have a lot of ties to a life like that might find themselves living like that....who knows?
But the Astral and higher planes are so vast. There are so many realms, zones, ways of being....

Actually this is what I thought. It's about attachment. The characters in the film were unknowing about life after death, and they were attached very much to their families, and I'm assuming they had little scope for anything other than physical existence. So that's what they got, after life.

I'm guessing I will find myself somewhere else. None the less, it is interesting that we still have our ego etc after death. I kinda thought ego was a human existence sort of thing.

Originally Posted by spiritualized

It's been said by some that this entire current existence/World is all STS based (service to self). It's a complex question as to whether in this current level there is any genuine STO? (service to others).

At least your being honest & examining your own thoughts, feelings, responses & reactions - that your looking more deeply at your own motivations, inner World & actual feelings around it all.

Maybe we are 'here' primarily for ourselves? For our own growth, learning & development? There is also the ideas that we teach others through our own circumstances & lives. Like the starving child or homeless man teaching compassion. Genuine service is maybe not necessarily just about going & doing 'good' things for people. How much also is it about making others feel good; in whatever capacity that is done in? Listening deeply to a stranger on the bus, smiling at someone on the street, stroking a cat? It's maybe not the things that we think of as being 'big' that really matter as much.

Yes, well it can be said that altruism doesn't actually exist philosophically. Even if we get to that place where we do want to give, it is because we get a feeling of goodness for doing so. Still, everyone wins in that scenario so it makes sense. Win-win. Buddhism talks about doing it for all sentient beings, but one must remember that includes, and starts with, oneself, but isn't solely revolving around oneself at the expense of others.

I think you're right. Even the little things are service, like treating shop assistants like they're humans and not robots, and saying "No thank you" to big issue sellers rather than ignoring them, and generally being patient with people.

Some people are the opposite though, aren't they? Some people spread poison where-ever they go.

Thank you for the passages.

Originally Posted by peacegarden

Some people are the opposite though, aren't they? Some people spread poison where-ever they go.

Civilisation & a lot of people have become very toxic, yes.

[Astral Explorer]

I actually just visited what I would consider to be part of "the astral city" in my last two projections. I got see to what some wildlife from another planet looked like. There were several theatres there and people were watching black and white films that were created by other forms of intelligent life. Either that or they are old black and white films about extra terrestrial life-forms that I have never seen or heard of. I have seen most of them though and there is no way the special effects were that good when films were done in black and white. There were little short and stubby aliens in one of the movies and they had on space suits and all kinds of technology. There were at least 100 people watching it. I have no doubt the girl who brought me there wanted to show me part of the astral city, or something similar. Like I stated in my other post when I got there I said to her "Where are all these people from?" She said "everywhere." I said "everywhere? you mean other planets?" She said yes. I replied "how many planets are there with intelligent life?" She said "40." I said "Really? 40?" She said "no, 40 thousand" Very matter of the fact. I said Wow 40,000! Then we went to see the exhibit that kept changing showing different wildlife. When I saw the wildlife from another planet I asked the guy next to me where it was from they were all talking about it and he told me the planet's name. It started with an O, can't remember the full name unfortunately. The craziest thing about the whole thing is if you google "life on 40,000 planets." You will get pages of results a known astrophysicist recently stated he believes there to be roughly 40,000 planets that support intelligent life in our galaxy. I tried googling 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, 50,000 and even further nothing comes. But if you google 40,000 you get tons of stuff all about the scientist who made that prediction. What are the chances of that happening honestly? I have never seen that article or read anything about 40,000 planets until after the projection last night. I have no choice but to believe what the girl told me after such a random number magically pops up under a astrophysicist's prediction to planets that support intelligent life.