Why do some people think they are ''incarnated'' angels?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

I do not ''bait'' people only for the joy of starting debates, I merely say what I think, even if it appears negative to others. You probably don't know that I have reached a point in life where nothing makes sense to me anymore, not even my very own beliefs which I held on to for years despite still being spiritually aware, and that's why I can't do anything more than just being myself, can I? So even if I WANTED to, I cannot inspire joy because I am uncertain of everything and don't know what to believe. Also, you say I fingerpoint to others a lot without examining myself but you have no clue how often I end up getting mad at myself for plenty of things, even if I don't display that in front of others. That being said, I find it utterly ridiculous that debates and discussions are frowned upon here while debating can actually be considered a skill in developing one’s communication, so your statement of me easily being drawn into debates being a weakness is completely absurd. There should be nothing wrong with it, as long it remains constructive and respectful without personal attacks. Debating is a part of both my online life and personal life. I participate in it even with friends only to end up shaking hands and accepting our differences.

Actually, I do understand that "pointing the finger" often at another or others is actually because one is really angry with oneself. It is mature that you admit that. Your assumption there is incorrect (where you stated I "probably don't know..."). I have been noticing and studying this phenomenon (in this lifetime) since I was a child from the 1980's, and you even stated to me months ago that you often became angry with yourself, in our very first discussion in a thread that A human Being had started that pertained to anger.

I didn't state that debating was wrong. I didn't "frown upon" debate and discussion. You must be speaking of someone(s) else, for my message did not imply that at all, SlayerOfLight. Growth ultimately comes from all choices and paths.

The weakness I speak of is not debating itself, I specifically spoke of the tendency to be easily drawn into debate, for that obviously comes from an argumentative and confrontational attitude to a large degree. You are severely contradicting yourself, for on the one hand you believe that you are getting something beneficial from debating (and I agree that you are to some degree), but then you claim that you cannot inspire anyone.

You assume that you must have certain things figured out before you can inspire anyone. Your "problem" is not that you cannot inspire anyone, because in fact you HAVE and DO occasionally inspire people, SlayerOfLight. Like I said, growth can come out of any experience, and for the soul it ultimately does, so I am not trying to dissuade you nor anyone from debating or engaging in any type of discussions.

Like my screen name, my suggestion to you (and to Baile) was really one of being more aware of one's actions, such as a tendency to exaggerate things that may be perceived as negative in regards to humanity or a particular group.

SlayerOfLight, you are really selling yourself short and being dishonest in claiming you "cannot inspire joy because I am uncertain of everything and don't know what to believe." That is total **. Ask yourself where you got that silly idea that you are "uncertain of everything." That is not true, and it is impossible. Every human being is certain of some very basic, core, universal things:

* You know that you exist, because you can feel yourself to be alive to some degree.

* You know that you have life force flowing within you (even if you do not often acknowledge or think about this, this is a FACT).

* You know that there have been times when you have felt joy that far surpassed anything you have ever felt while "debating."

* You know that you have creative ability.

* You know that you have a mind that thinks, and that you can--if you choose--make a decision to feel inspired and be more of an inspirational force in your world.

* You know that you have dreams and aspirations.

* You know that you have compassion in your heart.

* You know (in your core self) that your existence is not meaningless. You may doubt this, yes, but no amount of doubt can extinguish the deeper knowing of your spiritual heart.

* You know that there are like-minded people as you, people with whom you can feel some sense of deep connection with.

I will tell you some of what I know about you:

* I know that I love you. This is 100% certain. You are my brother.

* I know that you have a compassionate heart.

* I know that you have a "burning desire" in your heart, a strong passion to experience a beautiful and meaningful life, yet you often feel frustrated that this is a pipe dream, because you often are not seeing the great beauty and deep meaning that is within YOU to be seen.

* I know that you do not actively keep a gratitude journal. (This is something I still practice sometimes, and it really does work to remind me of how truly blessed I AM, which includes how blessed we all are to have this opportunity to live a human experience).

* I know that when you DO eventually choose to practice the Art of Appreciation (through gratitude journaling, etc., whatever works for you), and make this a positive, fairly consistent habit, that you will once again feel deeply at home with yourself and others around you.

* I know that you have always been a very curious and deep thinker, one who is naturally drawn to occult, metaphysical and mysterious ways of thinking and experiencing.

* I know that you are psychically sensitive to many things that many people around you in your personal life are not so attuned to, and you let this bother you sometimes, when in truth this is something that your soul signed up for, to be a catalyst for others to open up to more of their spiritual self.

* I KNOW that you are far wiser, knowledgeable and experienced in these psychic/spiritual/occult subjects than you presently realize.

* I KNOW that you have it within you to be, do and have whatever in life your heart deeply desires.

* I KNOW that you are good at debate, that you are very skilled in conversing with people and questioning things that most people often overlook; however, I also KNOW that debate often keeps one's vibration lower than, say, when appreciating a flower, or taking a nice, long, quiet walk somewhere.

* I KNOW and have seen you inspire people in this forum before. I have personally told you this in the past, and meant it 100%. This is not in question. So when I come at you strong as I did, I am not discounting the fact that your presence here has had an overall positive effect, for I did not suggest that you should not debate, I am essentially suggesting that you may be more discerning and aware of what is happening to you energetically when you do engage in certain types of discussions; in particular to practice avoiding negative exaggeration. (Not saying you don't practice this at all, but only suggesting it as a reminder.)

SlayerOfLight, you've told me in the past that you often are angry with yourself. I haven't forgotten that. And again, months later, you re-stated it, but what I am wanting to assist you with is this: Why stop there?

If your amount of debating is so helpful, as you said that you sometimes end up "shaking hands," then why are you often getting angry with yourself? That is a huge self-contradiction, my friend. There is no sense and logic in that. This is exactly what I was speaking about months ago, that you refused to really acknowledge or take to heart.

The only reason why you would still be beating up on yourself is obviously (if you can see it) that your amount of debating is not really giving you the level of joy and satisfaction that your heart really desires. You clearly feel that something is lacking, something is missing. So again, I am not saying "Don't debate," I am saying, "Bring a new level of awareness to the game," which is to be more honest and kind to yourself. It is realizing the great importance self-appreciation.

There are many basic things that you know, and even some very specific things that you are 100% certain about in a positive sense, if you look within yourself for them. You do not need to look deep, for there are wonderful qualities that are in plain view that you possess that you are often not acknowledging and accentuating.

You often say that you seek to better understand certain things, certain subjects and why people believe or say certain things, yet I haven't yet personally seen you simply affirm,

"I am willing to feel better about myself. I am open and willing to see beauty in myself."

You once outright said to me that you were not interested in spiritual growth. Do you remember stating this? Forgive me for divulging that, because it was in private, yet I am mentioning it here. Yet here you are, participating in a forum that is really dedicated to spiritual growth. This is wonderful, and nothing that you need to be dishonest about. ALL BEINGS to some degree are interested in what may be called "spiritual growth," for all beings at their core want to grow and expand.

Indeed, a lengthy post here, but something I wanted to take time with, if at least to give you a better understanding of where I am coming from with my occasional "advice." I promise not to drag this out any further here in this thread.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by awareness

The weakness I speak of is not debating itself, I specifically spoke of the tendency to be easily drawn into debate, for that obviously comes from an argumentative and confrontational attitude to a large degree. You are severely contradicting yourself, for on the one hand you believe that you are getting something beneficial from debating (and I agree that you are to some degree), but then you claim that you cannot inspire anyone.

Well you are kinda making a mountain out of a molehill by saying my tendency to get drawn into debates comes from an argumentative and confrontational attitude because as I have stated in my first post, I am open minded to hear the perceptions on said subjects from others so I can learn more about it, even if I disagree. And what I meant about not being able to inspire anyone is more in the New Age ''hippy'' way, because my views are darker and not really New Age-friendly compared to the majority of SF members. So being somewhat of an outsider, it's rather obvious that someone like me would have a hard time inspiring people in a forum like this.

You assume that you must have certain things figured out before you can inspire anyone. Your "problem" is not that you cannot inspire anyone, because in fact you HAVE and DO occasionally inspire people, SlayerOfLight. Like I said, growth can come out of any experience, and for the soul it ultimately does, so I am not trying to dissuade you nor anyone from debating or engaging in any type of discussions.

Not that it really bothers me, but I honestly can't remember who I've inspired here. I have met a few like-minded people who agree with me on some things, but that's pretty much it.

SlayerOfLight, you are really selling yourself short and being dishonest in claiming you "cannot inspire joy because I am uncertain of everything and don't know what to believe." That is total **. Ask yourself where you got that silly idea that you are "uncertain of everything." That is not true, and it is impossible. Every human being is certain of some very basic, core, universal things:

* You know that you exist, because you can feel yourself to be alive to some degree.

* You know that you have life force flowing within you (even if you do not often acknowledge or think about this, this is a FACT).

* You know that there have been times when you have felt joy that far surpassed anything you have ever felt while "debating."

* You know that you have creative ability.

* You know that you have a mind that thinks, and that you can--if you choose--make a decision to feel inspired and be more of an inspirational force in your world.

* You know that you have dreams and aspirations.

* You know that you have compassion in your heart.

* You know (in your core self) that your existence is not meaningless. You may doubt this, yes, but no amount of doubt can extinguish the deeper knowing of your spiritual heart.

* You know that there are like-minded people as you, people with whom you can feel some sense of deep connection with.

You were missing the point. I didn't mean I was uncertain of literally everything, but only my spiritual beliefs. Yes, I am pretty certain about plenty of things such as the fact that the Earth isn't flat and that I have five fingers on each hand and five senses, and some of the obvious you stated (however, I disagree with the second to the last of this list, but I suppose that's not really relevant at the moment).

If your amount of debating is so helpful, as you said that you sometimes end up "shaking hands," then why are you often getting angry with yourself? That is a huge self-contradiction, my friend. There is no sense and logic in that. This is exactly what I was speaking about months ago, that you refused to really acknowledge or take to heart.

You're getting it all wrong, I'm angry at myself for personal stuff that has nothing to do with debates. I see a respectful and meaningful debate whitout any personal attacks as socialising and getting to know the person who I clash opinions with better. True, there may have been moments here when I seemed somewhat angry or easily annoyed on the forum, I don't deny that. but that's rather because I woke up at the wrong side of the bed that very day combined with the fact that my head is always full of things.

The only reason why you would still be beating up on yourself is obviously (if you can see it) that your amount of debating is not really giving you the level of joy and satisfaction that your heart really desires. You clearly feel that something is lacking, something is missing. So again, I am not saying "Don't debate," I am saying, "Bring a new level of awareness to the game," which is to be more honest and kind to yourself. It is realizing the great importance self-appreciation..

I see what you're getting at and I am aware that you mean the best, and I appreciate that. But my spiritual views are indifferent so at the moment loving and appreciating myself on a New Age level isn't in my best interest. Maybe I might someday find any good reasons to, but not right now. Believe me, you are not the only one who goes on about how I gotta love myself and things like that. Some of you brought it up at irrelevant moments and even pm'd me over it, but I don't understand why it is so important to you guys while that isn't your problem? Is it more or less comparable to Christians telling non-Christians about hell and repentance? I am growing so curious about it to a point of being tempted to create a thread about it.

You once outright said to me that you were not interested in spiritual growth. Do you remember stating this? Forgive me for divulging that, because it was in private, yet I am mentioning it here. Yet here you are, participating in a forum that is really dedicated to spiritual growth. This is wonderful, and nothing that you need to be dishonest about. ALL BEINGS to some degree are interested in what may be called "spiritual growth," for all beings at their core want to grow and expand.

Yeah I do remember when I told you that. But I still hang onto it that I am not interested in spiritual growth. I am more interested in discovering the truth for now, because as I said, I don't know what to believe and what is true or false when it comes to spiritual beliefs and religion.

Indeed, a lengthy post here, but something I wanted to take time with, if at least to give you a better understanding of where I am coming from with my occasional "advice." I promise not to drag this out any further here in this thread.

I apologise if I weren't able to reply to everything you wrote but it took me a long time to write this reply and I couldn't afford any more time. Either way, be free to drag this further all you want. This thread has strayed off-topic for a while long before you came in anyway, lol.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Well you are kinda making a mountain out of a molehill by saying my tendency to get drawn into debates comes from an argumentative and confrontational attitude because as I have stated in my first post, I am open minded to hear the perceptions on said subjects from others so I can learn more about it, even if I disagree. And what I meant about not being able to inspire anyone is more in the New Age ''hippy'' way, because my views are darker and not really New Age-friendly compared to the majority of SF members. So being somewhat of an outsider, it's rather obvious that someone like me would have a hard time inspiring people in a forum like this.

Not that it really bothers me, but I honestly can't remember who I've inspired here. I have met a few like-minded people who agree with me on some things, but that's pretty much it.

You were missing the point. I didn't mean I was uncertain of literally everything, but only my spiritual beliefs. Yes, I am pretty certain about plenty of things such as the fact that the Earth isn't flat and that I have ten fingers on each hand and five senses, and some of the obvious you stated (however, I disagree with the second to the last of this list, but I suppose that's not really relevant at the moment).

You're getting it all wrong, I'm angry at myself for personal stuff that has nothing to do with debates. I see a respectful and meaningful debate whitout any personal attacks as socialising and getting to know the person who I clash opinions with better. True, there may have been moments here when I seemed somewhat angry or easily annoyed on the forum, I don't deny that. but that's rather because I woke up at the wrong side of the bed that very day combined with the fact that my head is always full of things.

I see what you're getting at and I am aware that you mean the best, and I appreciate that. But my spiritual views are indifferent so at the moment loving and appreciating myself on a New Age level isn't in my best interest. Maybe I might someday find any good reasons to, but not right now. Believe me, you are not the only one who goes on about how I gotta love myself and things like that. Some of you brought it up at irrelevant moments and even pm'd me over it, but I don't understand why it is so important to you guys while that isn't your problem? Is it more or less comparable to Christians telling non-Christians about hell and repentance? I am growing so curious about it to a point of being tempted to create a thread about it.

Yeah I do remember when I told you that. But I still hang onto it that I am not interested in spiritual growth. I am more interested in discovering the truth for now, because as I said, I don't know what to believe and what is true or false when it comes to spiritual beliefs and religion.

I apologise if I weren't able to reply to everything you wrote but it took me a long time to write this reply and I couldn't afford any more time. Either way, be free to drag this further all you want. This thread has strayed off-topic for a while long before you came in anyway, lol.

Your response shows that you didn't carefully read my post. I never stated nor implied that you were really saying that you were uncertain of everything. Of course you were exaggerating. You make tons of false assumptions without carefully reading people's responses back to you.

No, I am not getting "everything all wrong." That's another false assumption. I know that the root of your self-anger has nothing to do with the debating in itself. I never said that it did, my friend. I was saying that a lot of debating is not very healthy. You're hilarious, as you actually seem to have almost no clue as to what anyone in this forum is saying in their responses to you. You are jumping to wild, paranoid conclusions and accusing people of saying things about you when many times such things are not even said.

Claming that a person is "getting everything all wrong" is itself a highly paranoid and immature response. You sound like a five-year-old throwing a temper tantrum. Even I would never ever claim that a person is getting everything all wrong, for the statement itself makes no sense. This is again what my first post was speaking about, being more aware of negative exaggeration. And yes, I know that you didn't mean "everything" in terms of all the points that I made. I know such exaggeration when I see it (and when I exaggerate, myself), and do not take it 100% literally.

"Somewhat angry" is an understatement when one continually beats up on oneself. And also, you are to a large degree discounting the positive effect you have at times, a positive effect that is indeed inspirational. Your idea of inspiration is quite a bit different than mine, I notice. You yourself revealed that some of your discussions with people end with both parties "shaking hands," how is this not inspirational for both you and the other person? Amicably shaking hands with another is an action that is inspired by love. In such cases, both parties have inspired themselves as well as each other, in that it is a co-creative experience.

Your understanding of inspiration is quite narrow and very limited if you cannot see the obvious of how ANYTHING that promotes a sense of well-being--to any degree--is indeed inspirational. In-spire means "in spirit," it essentially refers to the spirit of love. You may wish to expand your understanding of what it really means "to inspire" in a spiritual sense.

And if you really look close at the essence of this thread that you began, you may find that I am not off topic at all, for everything that I wrote to you here ties in very directly to your questioning and seeking deeper understanding in regards to any subject ("incarnated angels" or anything), because greater self-awareness (which is what my suggestions really pertained to) is exactly what helps the most in understanding "others."

Your idea of "spiritual growth" is also very narrow and highly limited, for any type of positive expansion in understanding is by definition a form of spiritual growth. You speak of being interested in "discovering the truth" while interacting in a "spiritual forum." There is no higher discovery of truth than discovering your Self, which is to discover your True Nature. All of your/our questioning and seeking in life is really for the purpose of expanding self-understanding.

I also never spoke of loving and appreciating yourself on a "new age level." There are no new age levels here. I'm not asking you to do anything impossible, unrealistic or out of reach for you, if you may have thought so. I also never assume nor imply to you that I am offering something to you that you have never heard before. In my last message I stated that I am offering a reminder. Obviously we are in a forum in which there are many people with similar thoughts and advice, many who offer similar thoughts and advice.

We do not need to remember anyone specific who may have felt inspired by us, but simply acknowledging that anything that promotes a sense of love/respect/well-being is indeed inspirational. . .this is a type of attitude and awareness that promotes true growth. Spiritual growth is actually much simpler and much broader in scope than most humans realize. There are even people who grow spiritually who label themselves as "atheists," for many such people have high levels of compassion, and compassion itself is spiritual.

As Mother Teresa once said,

"Religion has nothing to do with compassion; it is our love for God that is the main thing because we have all been created for the sole purpose to love and be loved."

One could easily substitute the word "Oneness" or "compassion" for "God," and it would be essentially true, or any word that speaks of our unity and connectedness.

Enjoy your week, brother.

[awareness]

SlayerOfLight, your own actions in this forum are 100% obvious proof to anyone who can see it for what it essentially is that you certainly do feel there is some degree of meaning in your life, meaning for your existence.

You clearly feel some sense of purpose in continuing to visit this community, in continuing to engage in certain conversations with people both online and offline. If you are saying that you disagree with the idea of mine that you inwardly feel your existence has some meaning, then you are blatantly lying to yourself, knowing fully well in yourself that you cannot fully believe such a denial.

Your very existence is proof. When your soul leaves this Earth it will still be true. For you cannot erase the fact that your human actions, including your strong desire to "debate," is proof that you really feel some strong sense of purpose to seek answers and meaning, while your very human desire is only possible because you must have a sense that your life has meaning.

I know that you are not totally blind to your own super-obvious contradiction, there, if you are indeed still stating that you believe your life to be meaningless (which, if I am correct, I saw you state in this community some months ago).

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by awareness

Your response shows that you didn't carefully read my post. I never stated nor implied that you were really saying that you were uncertain of everything. Of course you were exaggerating. You make tons of false assumptions without carefully reading people's responses back to you

No, I am not getting "everything all wrong." That's another false assumption. I know that your self-anger has nothing to do with the debating in itself. I never said that it did, my friend. I was saying that a lot of debating is not very healthy. You're hilarious, as you actually seem to have almost no clue as to what anyone in this forum is saying in their responses to you. You are jumping to wild, paranoid conclusions and accusing people of saying things about you when many times such things are not even said.

Look dude, I slept terribly last night and when I began to wrote this reply I just got back from work and it took me like two hours to finish this reply since I was distracted by other things and pretty tired (you can tell by looking at the part where I screwed up saying ten fingers on each hand instead of five, lol) so I beg your pardon for the misunderstanding, I see now what you mean... But just so you know, I don't spend 24/7 of my time debating everywhere I go (just saying). When I occasionally do it does not affect my health in any way. I can't even remember the last time when I had a debate with a friend offline, so the amount of times I waste on it may be even lesser than it seems.

(will reply to some more in a while)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Look dude, I slept terribly last night and when I began to wrote this reply I just got back from work and it took me like two hours to finish this reply since I was distracted by other things and pretty tired (you can tell at the part where I screwed up saying ten fingers on each hand instead of five, lol) so I beg your pardon for the misunderstanding, I see now what you mean... But just so you know, I don't spend 24/7 of my time debating everywhere I go (just saying). When I occasionally do it does not affect my health in any way.

(will reply to some more in a while)

I believe you on the not 24/7 debating part. That too is super obvious to me. After all, a person has to sleep, eat and attend to other things as well. It shows you are just throwing out super obvious "facts" like that just to argue, which shows how desperate you are. "Just so you know..." As if you are sharing something that is relevant to the discussion. You made absolutely no point, there, except to show that you are not really interested in a real discussion.

You are full of childish excuses. Such as your previous example of waking up on the wrong side of the bed, which itself is a tired cliche, or just now when you stated that you slept terribly. Common sense would be to simply wait until you felt better, more alert, at a better time of the day for you, when not feeling distracted, before rushing into typing a response. Come on, dude.

Debate doesn't affect your health? That is another lie you're telling yourself. (You stated you "slept terribly." Wow, that is really healthy, SlayerOfLight.) You know from science that thoughts and feelings have a psychosomatic effect upon the body. This has already been proven thousands of times over in many examples throughout human history (and that was not an exaggeration), through science, metaphysics, philosophy and yes even in religion, just as it is stated in numerous ancient "holy books" that every thought/choice/action affects the physical body as well as the subtle bodies, as even the Buddha and Jesus knew and taught this.

I agree with Baile, that at a point like this in a conversation it makes no sense to really continue the interaction. I am not interested in conversing with someone who rushes into a response while still feeling tired or when distracted by other things. That is irresponsible. I don't care how long it took you to write your response, it is not about quantity of time but quality of response.

Thank you for interacting with me, though. It was indeed quite fascinating. Peace, all.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by awareness

I believe you on the not 24/7 debating part. That too is super obvious to me. After all, a person has to sleep, eat and attend to other things as well. It shows you are just throwing out super obvious "facts" like that just to argue, which shows how desperate you are. "Just so you know..." As if you are sharing something that is relevant to the discussion. You made absolutely no point, there, except to show that you are not really interested in a real discussion.

You are full of childish excuses. Such as your previous example of waking up on the wrong side of the bed, which itself is a tired cliche, or just now when you stated that you slept terribly. Common sense would be to simply wait until you felt better, more alert, at a better time of the day for you, when not feeling distracted, before rushing into typing a response. Come on, dude.

Debate doesn't affect your health? That is another lie you're telling yourself. (You stated you "slept terribly." Wow, that is really healthy, SlayerOfLight.) You know from science that thoughts and feelings have a psychosomatic effect upon the body. This has already been proven thousands of times over in many examples throughout human history (and that was not an exaggeration), through science, metaphysics, philosophy and yes even in religion, just as it is stated in numerous ancient "holy books" that every thought/choice/action affects the physical body as well as the subtle bodies, as even the Buddha and Jesus knew and taught this.

I agree with Baile, that at a point like this in a conversation it makes no sense to really continue the interaction. I am not interested in conversing with someone who rushes into a response while still feeling tired or when distracted by other things. That is irresponsible. I don't care how long it took you to write your response, it is not about quantity of time but quality of response..

Yea, like you are perfect and never make mistakes. I apologised and admitted I was wrong at a part, yet you feel the need to keep on trying to belittle me? Where is that so-called ''brotherly'' love you supposedly displayed a while ago now? Not that I really care in all honesty.

Thank you for interacting with me, though. It was indeed quite fascinating. Peace, all.

Pleasure is all yours, kthxbye.

[Tobi]

A reminder please. Can we try to keep this thread on-topic?
"Why do some people think they are incarnated Angels?"

Instead of it being a back-and-forth about peoples' sleep issues, lifestyle problems, or psycho-analysis (!) of other members.

[Goddessa]

Originally Posted by Baile

Why do some people think God is real, that Jesus was the son God, that Satan and demons exists, that Buddha was enlightened, that crystals and pyramids and Reiki can heal, etc. The relevant question IMO here is why do people single out any one specific belief as weird, when all these others are considered normal and valid? Considering all the various ideas religious and spiritual people believe, thinking one is an angel really is pretty mundane stuff when all is said and done lol.

Beautifully said. Yes, sure when I first saw posts of people talking about their wings and so on I really didn't know what to think but not a single person on this forum can prove that they are in fact, not angels and they cannot prove that they are angels either.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Tobi

A reminder please. Can we try to keep this thread on-topic?
"Why do some people think they are incarnated Angels?"

Instead of it being a back-and-forth about peoples' sleep issues, lifestyle problems, or psycho-analysis (!) of other members.

We know that no one forced the creator of this thread to continue back-and-forth with anyone who was "off topic." As some say, it takes two to tango. He kept it going through free-will participation, just as much as anyone who was "off topic."

Also, the starter of this thread is also psycho-analyzing the beliefs of many types of people who believe differently than him (through this discussion and many similar ones), as the thread's title clearly shows.