So, God wants us to be perfect, right?

Originally Posted by JustBe

Some people don't even think about any of this stuff. Even the word spirituality and god comes from humans.

People focus on what they choose for their own experience. They dive on things to make sense of what they experience.

Like myself recently. Let me see how to interpret it without making it be something related to something else.

Ok.

I closed my eyes and suddenly the area around my forehead began to open up a view of pictures. Some were angled and some looked like buildings with doorways and windows. From there I moved onto seeing mountains, oceans, land mass. I would describe it much like looking into Kaliedscope of sorts. Then I saw what I would describe as being, a space crater and coming from its central core was various creatures and various things morphing and changing form. As an example I saw an iguana it had shape and form but no details on its body. As it came through that very large crater it would take shape then suddenly merge into a blob and move through the flow of my viewing. Other things did the same thing. As I watched, I kept thinking, this is amazing and it felt so life like through this visionary connection. I was pleasantly surprised, that I could see and observe this so real and so very life like. It went on for about five minutes.

I was reading something from Douglas Adams who wrote the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - which has the answer to Life, the Universe, Everything by the way. One day a caveman was walking through his domain and started having some strange thoughts. He wondered how all this came about - he has food to hunt, a wife to cook for him and make him clothes, paint with which to express himself on cave walls... Someone must have put it there for him, someone far above his ability to perceive or know. In that instant God was born.


The human mind needs a way of making sense of things we experience, and often that's relating it to things we've experienced before; we put things into context and we have a Spiritual experience because we're Spiritual people or it was given to us by God. It's surprising how much we are driven by agenda and not truth, rationality, God, Spirituality.....


That's a pretty cool experience. Imperfect though, there weren't any burning bushes. Even though you know it's a visionary connection, it's interesting to allow yourself to indulge in such things for a short while, just to realise that there is the potential to bring these kinds of experience into your reality.

Originally Posted by linen53

I can be imperfect without passing judgement.

Can we not simply exist without having to be Spiritual, perfect, fretting over imperfections, higher vibration....??

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Can we not simply exist without having to be Spiritual, perfect, fretting over imperfections, higher vibration....??

Lol, I don't fret over being imperfect. I celebrate it. And I don't strive for kundalini whatever, higher vibrations, chakras, third eye stuff, meditation, etc.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I was reading something from Douglas Adams who wrote the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - which has the answer to Life, the Universe, Everything by the way. One day a caveman was walking through his domain and started having some strange thoughts. He wondered how all this came about - he has food to hunt, a wife to cook for him and make him clothes, paint with which to express himself on cave walls... Someone must have put it there for him, someone far above his ability to perceive or know. In that instant God was born.

Hahaha wailing and screaming too

Hello there Greenslade -- how have you been doing?
Myself, I take everything Douglas Adams said with a very large handful of salt but it is just so dem funny.

Seriously though, it's a complex question.
There clearly was a chicken of existence before their was an egg of physical humanity and fractal, individuated human consciousness...that is true.
And yet...we in turn do shape our worldview first communally and also then individually...and certain things are real to us within that worldview whilst others are not or are much less definite.

On the issue of Source, all that is derives from All that Is. But it's hard to say much more about it... We didn't invent Source, true, but we DO invent our own concept and understanding of both all that is (existence) and All that Is (Meta-Existence)...which in turn comprises a small speck of all this and likewise helps to sustain and manifest it.

One thing we can do to live more fully and more truly IMO is to better realise the divinity within. That is best done by better knowing and being who we are at centre, and by better aligning with who we are at centre. If we are true to who we are, then we know we matter equally to all others, who matter (this is the kicker) equally to us. We know we matter and that what we say and do matters...that it matters that we own who we are, what we say, and what we do. Ultimately, it matters equally what we intend and think.

There is no appropriate response to another aside from the utmost lovingkindness, equanimity, honour, and respect for our mutual humanity. Sometimes this means calling folks on their **** (LOL) and likewise setting firm boundaries till they get their stuff together...but only because they are worthy and valued in their core humanity and their core being.

The human mind needs a way of making sense of things we experience, and often that's relating it to things we've experienced before; we put things into context and we have a Spiritual experience because we're Spiritual people or it was given to us by God. It's surprising how much we are driven by agenda and not truth, rationality, God, Spirituality.....

Habit and routinization are key survival traits and also impediments to further advancement, learning, and awakening as individuals and more broadly really as a species.

You're too right...it's human habit to cling to the tribe and fear others...it's human habit to attack before we're attacked...and so forth. It brought us this far but now this sort of ingrained, fear-based routinized behavior (biases, hate-mongering, etc) is likely to bring on (nuclear) war and oppression at the extreme ends. The extreme ends are fairly common, too, and always have been, LOL...

Now we've much bigger and deadly "guns, germs, and steel" than ever before...we are challenged as a species to make it happen else reap what we sow. I believe we can because I know we can. Meaning, I've been told I have more faith in Source, Love, and our own capacity for authentic love than most have. Yet, I can see it and feel it, so it's not really believing so much as simply knowing we can.

I probably have no more faith than anyone else, more or less. I just like to live on the razor's edge of spirit, so I can drink out of the well more deeply. I've also been told I'm either very courageous or stupid in my lack of fear...and being brutally honest, I said it was probably both But when you know you are not on this journey alone, there is a deep peace in that...a deep strength and love.

Well, I am who I am...and that's what it all comes down to...being true to yourself, embracing it all, AND continually refining who you are at core. If we're not doing that last -- and if we're not doing it consciously and with full engagement at a certain point -- then we're truly missing the mark.

That's a pretty cool experience. Imperfect though, there weren't any burning bushes. Even though you know it's a visionary connection, it's interesting to allow yourself to indulge in such things for a short while, just to realise that there is the potential to bring these kinds of experience into your reality.

There is more than just the potential IMO...that's the truly amazing aspect.
And that's why it is so key to simply be here now. To be love now. And to take the consciously loving choices to simply be kind and authentic in each moment. Once you know you matter...and that everyone and everything else matters equally...the universe has already been transformed and everything is different now (to what it would have been).

First to change is the low-hanging fruit...Berenstein Bears is now Berenstain WTH?...hahaha Next...your heart, your manifest behaviour, and after a handful of years (maybe several), our culture...
After that...one day, maybe, the world. Let's just stop there, hahaha.

But can you imagine a world of peace, strength, discipline, justice, compassion, and lovingkindness? I.e., a world of authentic love, where humanity seeks one another's mutual highest good? And that of the earth and her creatures, as well? It's hard to fully imagine how thoroughly different the world could be if we learned to care for one another's mutual highest humanity. I can see it...it's still very possible and becoming more possible each day...it's just not a "done deal" yet...because we have to seek it and choose it and stand for it and love it. IOW, it has to be who we are at centre.

Peace & blessings
7L

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Lightseer

All religions and belief systems tell us that God wants us to be perfect. That we are basically faulty and need to strive to get fixed. This is interestingly the only area where all beliefs meet, whether it is a Catholic, New Age witch, occultist or whatever, all say 'God' wants us to make ourselves perfect, find our so called higher self or something similar. Even Satanists strive to be the perfect person, as they see it. It is basically all the same thing in different wrapping.

It goes like this...

1.You are inferior to higher beings, higher self or god or God.
2. You have to become the acceptable version of perfect (for your particular belief system) to *ascend* (aka be accepted by the beings *higher* than you.

But what if that is wrong?

What if we should be striving to be imperfect? (I don't mean the 'soft' approach to spirituality).

you really have to think about what "perfect" really is. What I think is perfect you may find flaws and the other way around. I think if someone demands you to be perfect by there standards isn't that good of a person. But if they push you to grow and experience you can become perfect. But once you become "perfect". You stop growing, and stop reaching for the stars. Hope that never happens to anyone. So stay imperfect and keep reaching for the stars.

Originally Posted by linen53

Lol, I don't fret over being imperfect. I celebrate it. And I don't strive for kundalini whatever, higher vibrations, chakras, third eye stuff, meditation, etc.

It's liberating and en-light-ened, isn't it? If 'everything that has happened, is happening or will ever happen' has any meaning then we're perfect already and thete's no more to do.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by hallow

you really have to think about what "perfect" really is. What I think is perfect you may find flaws and the other way around. I think if someone demands you to be perfect by there standards isn't that good of a person. But if they push you to grow and experience you can become perfect. But once you become "perfect". You stop growing, and stop reaching for the stars. Hope that never happens to anyone. So stay imperfect and keep reaching for the stars.

For sure .

Many say that things are as they are for a reason no matter what, so in a way what is and what unfolds for each individual is always a perfect experience had .

Therefore two opposing results / experiences / expressions can be equally perfect .

Some might say that striving for perfection would encompass the energy of a saint so only a saintly expression will be a perfect one .

I think the perfection word will always create problems and as always, context is the key ..


x daz x

[hallow]

If we change perfection to the best we know how. might ease the stress of just being a good all around person. One person, one task at a time. Trying to live up to and mimic a saint can really be intimating and almost an unreachable goal.

[Joe Mc]

Perfection is a real idea or ideal. Recently I've been thinking more and more about why the idea of perfection exists at all within human consciousness itself but it does. In my humble amount of experience and lived time, perfection exists at least as an idea that there could be 'something' that is not tainted by the limitations of time or suffering. When we get by such things that bodies age and decay, the earth often behaves in a volatile and unstable fashion towards us humans or that we pass away before our wish not to, then we are somehow still left with the idea of perfection. Granted this idea seems to point towards or outside of what we call the material realm but having said that many claim to have found types of perfection here within material life itself.

In relation to the thread makers' remarks towards the perfecting of ourselves within the context of religion or other spiritual pathways, I find the moral shaping of our souls in ways that traditional christianity speaks about to be perhaps a somewhat truthful pathway but also a limiting one. The traditional image of the 'Smithy' hammering down onto hot metal as an analogy for our moral shaping and adequacy for heaven is a bit insidious and contracting. However it might make more sense when we confront the notion of perfection as it exists as a philosophical of even buddhistic idea. I mean only then do these other religious notions make more sense.

I suppose another term for perfection is love itself. Again the fact that we have experienced love in whatever manner makes us believe in part at least, that we are creatures of love. It seems that people have been too preoccupied perhaps with where this love emerged from ? And why it is there at all. How dare this 'Perfection' show up in our lives and threaten and perhaps usurp my notions of love derived from other things ? So I will get to it right away and begin to formulate religious 'Dogma' or Doctrines to what end? To keep love away ? To keep love in a box ? Not sure of that answer if there is one. But I am sure that love is to be experienced and lived and we seem to be encumbered with this dilemma from the beginning of time. Perhaps it is to be more lived and experienced than it is to be debated and written or thought about. The written words and thought become its vehicles and servants, the religions and spiritual pathways become its reflections or not but love as im learning doesnt need ideas and concepts, churches, towers or temples to exist per se.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's liberating and en-light-ened, isn't it? If 'everything that has happened, is happening or will ever happen' has any meaning then we're perfect already and thete's no more to do.

Yes it is. I spent most of my life trying to measure up to other's expectations and I failed miserably. It felt like swimming against the current. Now I just Am. I accept me for all the good, naughty, weak and indifferent