Right/Wrong... subjective?

It's all a trap, stay out of it.

[Deusdrum]

Originally Posted by each1teach1

Gentler manner? Nah..Very good posts, enjoyed reading them.

I too see it as wrong to not love yourself. To not strive to be strong as well. You are wronging yourself. Your perception and strength is a choice and no one can change that but you. One should not feel sorry for another but lead by example or encourage them to do their best with what they have as others are able to do. But of course there are times when every man/woman needs help or guidance at some point and that's human. No one is an island, we are all interconnected. A grown adult I feel should be confident in themselves though, or at least work on finding the positive aspects of themselves. A damaged individual should seek help from strong people that are willing to offer counsel. There are tons of rehabilitated addicts or other previously damaged people that found their strength within and are willing to help others find it. Strength and love are powerful together.

The Jimmy Hendrix quote could be one answer for this question. There are abstract universal laws that cannot be denied, whether the source is in the heart of us all or some external force. Wisdom is tried and tested truth.

Thanks e1t1. To be honest with you though I'm not liking from my last post 'hating yourself is wrong..' (much prefer the way you word it above) because often people who have self esteem issues have been told their whole lives how wrong they are. I also am wary of the word 'strong'. Nietzsche was big proponent of the strong and to him evil was akin to the weak. As you may have surmised, I more or less do not agree with his thinking, though at times he makes a compelling case in a certain sense.

For some people, strong is getting up in the morning. Maybe it takes a certain kind of strength to admit a weakness. But I get what you're saying, I especially like this part;

One should not feel sorry for another but lead by example or encourage them to do their best with what they have as others are able to do. But of course there are times when every man/woman needs help or guidance at some point and that's human. No one is an island, we are all interconnected.

Another part of my last post I take issue with is the bit about wanting acceptance as being wrong. We are social creatures so everyone wants recognition, respect, acceptance. To not be (feel rather?) alone. All I meant to say is we err imo when a person compromises their integrity, values, themselves in some way in order to do so. Social pressure is a strong force, and cultural norms are not always (to say the least) the "right" ones.

Anywho, probably said enough, was secretly hoping this thread would fall rapidly and disappear haha. I've taken Ethics in college; Hobbes basically thought morality was simply the prerequisite condition in which people abide by in order for civilization and society to exist and function properly. I don't necessarily buy that people would otherwise degenerate into crazed animals of wanton lust and violence, but as arguments go I consider it pretty solid all the same.

Plato makes the point that even the most greedy and selfish of people must practice (the otherwise admiral quality of) co-operation to get what they want. Bank robbers need the getaway driver, an expert with explosives, a guy who's specialty is cracking the lock to the safe and doors, disarming the alarms, etc. (we've all seen the movies) otherwise the theft would take too long and they'd get caught. Crime becomes far more profitable when it's organized, for instance. Even better if gangs are able to run or influence governments and technically (ostensibly) legal and legitimate businesses, but I digress.

Power in numbers works the other way, too. Gandhi proved that one, good example of a leader right there. I personally prefer that kind of power.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by each1teach1

My whole point here is that Morality is part of the Hundredth Monkey Effect for those in the same country/environment that is.
I believe the Hundredth Monkey Effect is spiritual evolution, and so Right/Wrong becomes more clear to us as humans. What's Right/Wrong to you?

Well since you ask, to me, this right/wrong thing looks like a sickness, perhaps as if the only thing that is wrong with the whole thing is us presuming we can truly know the difference between right and wrong and acting on whatever it is we want to think. We would have been much better off if eve hadn't saddled us with it in my book...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by each1teach1

A common argument is that our morality, or what we call the understanding of "right and wrong" or "good and bad" is governed by the individual's standards instead of a universal truth or common understanding (look up Hundredth Monkey Effect)that we all tap into/realize, which is a product of humanity's spiritual evolution.

The latter is my argument. Right/Wrong is Universal truth.
I think everyone can testify that Love is right and Hate is wrong.
Even people who suffer tremendous emotional and physical pain, I think they are still aware of what is what is universally right and wrong for humanity but they ignore the good inside of them due to fear/confusion. I believe those who make right and wrong out to be subjective ideas are just rationalizing their selfish desires. In my perception, nobody believes that evil is right, but for some people it's just all they're familiar with so they glorify it.

Love is acceptance, understanding, union, peace, community, caring, support etc
Hate is intolerance, unsympathetic ignorance, tension, us against them mentality etc

So do you think this is a common general understanding of Love/Hate? or do you think my understanding is subjective and not universal?

What about positive/negative? I believe we all have a general understanding of what positive/negative energy is..

What is your stance?

Yep, there's a concept in buddhism called 'false perceptions' and there's also the concept of 'right' as in 'right thinking' 'right actions' etc.

People like to think there's only a subjective right and wrong, but there's more to it in the psychological sense, because there that which is wholesomly motivated by a sense of greater good and also that which is degenerative, egocentric or harmful.

The problem is, people base good and evil on their particular individual belief systems and not on universal laws, but then again, this is a matter of insight and not an issue of moralistic guidelines.