SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE of SPIRITUALITY BRINGING POSITIVE CHANGE in BRAIN CELLS

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by organic born

In this case I see her using the framework of prayer in order to give herself permission, and to position her comfort level, in order to do something quite extraordinary. The praying serves as a placebo to help comfort her protective and more fear-based brain.

The Jesus figure is a very powerful cultural symbol to help focus on this feeling of protection. It could just as easily have been her own over-soul making a cleaner presence in order to facilitate this experience, which would certainly feel like a jesus to our current physical definition/experience of self.

I do not know what you are trying to prove but Deepsoul is a living example of the power of Prayer.

I agree neither all Prayers are answered nor give Positive Result. That does not mean that we should not take advantage of Praying. [/color]

[Deepsoul]

Lying in bed early morning thinking of our Lord I saw far away a desert with a beautiful blue pink gold dawn ,I said I love You Jesus and an amazing bright golden star burst through the sky and into my being , it was just so special and I am so grateful that I receive this support .....Amen

I'm still looking for this scientific evidence...details please. It's all too easy to attribute erroneous cause and effect. How would the scientists know it was the spirituality alone? How does any kind of spirituality bring about positive changes in brain cells? What are the changes? If they're conducting better that could be changes in the intensity of various neurotransmitters. Exercise, diet, emotion all effect changes in neurotransmitters.

So, please tell me, I'm interested. What studies are you referring to?

Originally Posted by OPVerma

I do not know what you are trying to prove but Deepsoul is a living example of the power of Prayer.

That isn't scientific evidence of changes in brain cells. But do correct me if I'm wrong.

...

[Deepsoul]

Lorelyn Ive heard of brain tests on monks that meditate on compassion and it lights a certain part of the brain, I think the more we put prayer into these positive emotions then the more the brain allows for the in flow of the Divine power that is magical ,mysterious and Pure love available for us all....

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I'm still looking for this scientific evidence...details please. It's all too easy to attribute erroneous cause and effect. How would the scientists know it was the spirituality alone? How does any kind of spirituality bring about positive changes in brain cells? What are the changes? If they're conducting better that could be changes in the intensity of various neurotransmitters. Exercise, diet, emotion all effect changes in neurotransmitters.

So, please tell me, I'm interested. What studies are you referring to?


That isn't scientific evidence of changes in brain cells. But do correct me if I'm wrong.

...

Have to agree with you. As you say neurotransmitters affect the brain and the body. The body plays a role here to don't you think. I don't think changes are physical changes of cells at first but physical locations. The scientific evidence shows location in the brain which correlate to be read. Is this what is also correct. Emotion.

Statements are only valid if the stater can answer questions on her/his statement when there's confusion. Not the first time in several weeks I've had to ask for clarification which is not forthcoming. I asked a reasonable question on 01 Sept. If it isn't answered by let's say 15 Sept, then I'll dismiss the o/p's claim. She/he appears not to understand enough neurophysiology to make the statement.

And I'll justifiably believe the o/p is giving me bull.

Originally Posted by Deepsoul"

Lorelyn Ive heard of brain tests on monks that meditate on compassion and it lights a certain part of the brain, I think the more we put prayer into these positive emotions then the more the brain allows for the in flow of the Divine power that is magical ,mysterious and Pure love available for us all....

Which is fine and suggests the activities cause subtle changes in the body that give rise to changes in neurotransmitters. They're peculiar chemicals and I admit outright, I don't know much about them, more so how they get to the brain because I don't think they're manufactured there. Cerebrospinal fluid? I don't know....

I was hoping the o/p would return to tell me.

And there's the issue of location mentioned by lemex plus the brain-type neurones that aren't actually in the brain but serve as pre-processors to which the cortices seem to delegate some functions. It all seems to come down to how messages are received in a way that affects a bulk of neurones...the "pleasure centres" for example. What steers the particular transmitters to increase their activity in this locality? It also suggests the brain is hierarchical because some part of it is controlling other parts.

It's complicated - our neurology. But one has to be careful not to attribute clause and effect glibly.

There's a statistic that says "people who wear gold watches die younger than those who don't."

Would I blame the watches? Nope.

Claiming that spirituality alters brain cells is on the same level, to me.

[Deepsoul]

Yeah the whole thing is really personal and who the heck really knows ,I just know that I never felt the things I feel now since Ive been a full on prayer as well as the feelings,movements and sensations I experience in my brain when I am being fully present, the old saying More Blinking less Thinking...

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I'm still looking for this scientific evidence...details please. It's all too easy to attribute erroneous cause and effect. How would the scientists know it was the spirituality alone? How does any kind of spirituality bring about positive changes in brain cells? What are the changes? If they're conducting better that could be changes in the intensity of various neurotransmitters. Exercise, diet, emotion all effect changes in neurotransmitters.

So, please tell me, I'm interested. What studies are you referring to?


That isn't scientific evidence of changes in brain cells. But do correct me if I'm wrong.

...

You are right. It is very difficult to isolate a single cause responsible for positive or negative changes in the brain cells. However some causes like love for GOD as in case of Deepsoul, seems to Obviously Dominating for bringing positive changes over the others.

Scientists usually make a hypothesis say ' Prayer brings positive change ... ' They take statistically valid samples in various groups say 'Prayer Group ' and ' Non prayer Group ' , leave them for some months or year and in the end, examine them to see in what way their brain cells have clinically responded/ changed. If the changes are significant , The hypothesis is accepted (or rejected).

The Newsmax Study Team published the pictures of brain cells of Prayer Group that contained more healthy neurons as compared to non prayer group with increasing drying neurons..

Well, yes. But statements like:
It also details how a specific amount of prayer time per day can help prevent memory loss, mental decline, and even dementia or Alzheimer’s.
may be true but it's true of most mental activity that involves concentration and/or problem solving. The cause could be higher levels of concentration.
The ancillary benefits - perfectly right. Prayer, which I look upon as highly focused affirmations will effect the "improvements" quoted. Again, so does looking after one's health through the proper conduct of one's lifestyle. There are plenty of people mentally and physically active in their 90s.

As for that newsmax study. I have looked it up. I clicked on a...well, a kind of video - a reporter reading out words appearing on a slide show. It goes on and on. No way to speed it up like Youtube. There doesn't seem a way to get sight of the report. I'd hoped to find at least an abstract and index. So pictures of brain cells....one wonders how that could be done and what the health indices are to distinguish healthy neurones from unhealthy one. It would seem impossible to photograph brain cells working in situ though one could measure synaptic activity with probes, I dare say.

The video does seem to confirm what's been posited here: it's about neural activity, which is about neural transmission not brain cells themselves. It also makes some assertions that would be difficult to prove scientifically.

So while I sincerely respect what you have to say, I remain unconvinced (ed: about the conclusions).

Yes, prayer will affect cerebral activity long term because it incurs and instils beliefs that become part of memory and experience. But so do many other things. A technical graduate will probably enjoy similar if not identical changes because of the degree of concentration demanded.

I'm not "putting down" prayer by the way. In whatever form it is good for all.

Thank you for your response.
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[organic born]

Originally Posted by Deepsoul

, Hey Organicborn Im sure as you could appreciate that most experiment with much spirituality, I have prayed to tins of baked beans lol and there is nothing there ,Jesus is real and he does comfort and heal ,I see what youare saying but there is this world or that world and until one really pops through it is not explainable to another, for me this works and after much experimentation have found it to be the only thing that does ,of course self evaluation and change through practised therapy is highly beneficial but that is still and will never be the spiritworld....

As to to the tin of baked beans, you "knew" they were baked beans, just as a tub full of water wouldn't be confused for an entire ocean.

We can touch, smell, and taste physical stuff with our senses, which helps give it the context we'd assign to it's presence. Things can get a bit dicier when we step out of our normal physical context, and then return and attempt to describe such an experience accordingly. I came from a highly religious background and when I first started experiencing my own spiritual adventures I tended to use the imagery I was conditioned to as a child. Over time this habit dissolved on it's own because the pieces of such conditioning no longer fit with the experience. It was nice to have such imagery at first though, as it gave me something to hold on to during the initial challenges to my primary description of self. You may find that if/as such experiences continue that your desire for clarification will shift in a similar way.