Is there any way out of this mess we call the 3rd Dimension?

[organic born]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Angels and such don't matter until they do, until you have something you need to point to-- however, to learn new languages for the mind to deal with, studying the patterns of ancient texts, alchemists, and occult alike; would allow you to see what they are really talking about going on inside of you, but what you are unaware of yet is that it is also out of you--

Actually you can add modern science to the above list as well. I am currently reading a book entitled "Sapiens: a Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Harari and am enjoying the ride. It's all modern science and is uniquely insightful. Of course.. we currently inhabit an animal body, so we're subject to the influence of perceiving through neurons.

In terms of the "mess" part of this thread here's a quote from the book that helps set the stage:

"In addition, since humans are born underdeveloped, they can be educated and socialised to a far greater extent than any other animal. Most mammals emerge from the womb like glazed earthenware emerging from a kiln – any attempt at remoulding will scratch or break them. Humans emerge from the womb like molten glass from a furnace. They can be spun, stretched and shaped with a surprising degree of freedom."

And "stretch and shape" we do! Humans are the only species that can "imagine and be convinced" that money, a nation, a religion, etc actually has validity. It's all based on imaginary trust but an individual can be molded to accept every degree of what's imaginable.

We are also "biologically" adapted to living comfortably with about 150 individuals. This is about the limit of what our minds have evolved to track with reasonable clarity. After that we need to install a general belief paradigm. In a small group we get to know and trust each other though interactive continuity, but after that we can still form a bond with "strangers" based on a common belief structure. So, if I say I'm into jesus and you say that you're into jesus then we can form a general bond based on like-beliefs.

The book does a wonderful job of crystallizing the effects of these influences!

Humans are indeed influenced intently by our biological orientation so we dare not leave that out when we're investigating our perceptive presence within a physical environment. :)

[SerpentSun]

Originally Posted by organic born

Actually you can add modern science to the above list as well. I am currently reading a book entitled "Sapiens: a Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Harari and am enjoying the ride. It's all modern science and is uniquely insightful. Of course.. we currently inhabit an animal body, so we're subject to the influence of perceiving through neurons.

In terms of the "mess" part of this thread here's a quote from the book that helps set the stage:

"In addition, since humans are born underdeveloped, they can be educated and socialised to a far greater extent than any other animal. Most mammals emerge from the womb like glazed earthenware emerging from a kiln – any attempt at remoulding will scratch or break them. Humans emerge from the womb like molten glass from a furnace. They can be spun, stretched and shaped with a surprising degree of freedom."

And "stretch and shape" we do! Humans are the only species that can "imagine and be convinced" that money, a nation, a religion, etc actually has validity. It's all based on imaginary trust but an individual can be molded to accept every degree of what's imaginable.

We are also "biologically" adapted to living comfortably with about 150 individuals. This is about the limit of what our minds have evolved to track with reasonable clarity. After that we need to install a general belief paradigm. In a small group we get to know and trust each other though interactive continuity, but after that we can still form a bond with "strangers" based on a common belief structure. So, if I say I'm into jesus and you say that you're into jesus then we can form a general bond based on like-beliefs.

The book does a wonderful job of crystallizing the effects of these influences!

Humans are indeed influenced intently by our biological orientation so we dare not leave that out when we're investigating our perceptive presence within a physical environment. :)

I must say, you're one of a good handful of folks on here who's words really resonate with me, and that handful you're a part of is so much more patient than I am. Sometimes I have a dissenting opinion on here, many cold hard facts I'd like to share. And a few members such as yourself will state my same thought but with much more grace. :)

[Kontufuto]

I want to elaborate on something in addition to my original start of this thread. Let's talk about creation for a moment and think about its relation to the overall. If we surmise that thought comes before energy and energy is nothing more than the manifestation of encapsulated thoughts joined/bonded from a certain frequency of vibrations then we have this possible theory of creation. Suppose that we inherit what we know from original thought. The thought of One IS the origin and consequently the predecessor of everything. Whether or not that is actually true or not is practically guaranteed as true by What Is which is reality based. If we are Not One with the Universe and Not One with Source then we can then postulate that we are wrong with the assumption and therefore its all a lie! Creation must exist and anything or anyone who thinks it isn't Creation is predisposed to the idea that nothing actually exists! We can run circles around the fact that memories and history along with its systemic source of time and energy is manifest only because we observe them. So if we can talk about them then they must be real and not a figment of our understanding of creation or life. Whether or not you want to believe creation came out of love should be the benchmark for understanding existance not just what your concept is of the definition of a dimension but of within itself. So as I hold on to the idea as well as some have stated here it should start and end with each one of us I also strongly feel that a shared consciousness is stronger in will and fortitude than the minute strength of one which is not within the scope of reality. If any of this makes sense it is because either that you have observed this phenomena yourself while jetting through the universe or perhaps had an epiphany or two about your relationship to the whole. One can also say creation is not real but then what are we talking about when we are here talking about it! The key that I am talking about here is that creation is because we have created it and as it goes back to my point of the original discussion is that the cesspool part of life is either self-generated or indulged for reasons beyond shared consciousness (thinking that Love is the origin of shared consciousness outside the confines of the Human Condition). I do not want to belabor the fact that this universe...this 'dimension' is riddled with counter-intuitive ideas but they exist nevertheless and I for one would very much like to eradicate them. They do me no good toward having a free and pure existence!

[r6r6]

Kontufuto--- If we surmise that thought comes before energy....

There is no rational, logical common sense for thinking that. Also no evidence of such. We do have rational, logical common sense and evidence of the alternative, physical/energy > biological life > human nervous system > increasing metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept accessing abilities aka thought via the nervous system.

All of the other is moot, unless we can address the above with specific, rational logical common sense and any substanitating evidence. imho

r6